Christianity requires an immoral decision to be saved.

[Peter StanleyParticipant]

I know I’m seen by some Christians as a heretic.  Richard says that Christian beliefs wouldn’t hold up very long in the free exchange of ideas and puts forward several valid reasons.  But where does the idea come from that we needed to be saved from the nature that God gave us?  I have understood for several years that there is an enormous difference between the Christian RELIGION (Christendom) and the Christian FAITH.  I would agree with Richard that if the Garden story was true, Adam and Eve didn’t have a chance.  I’m convinced that the early chapters of Genesis are myth and symbolism.  One of the foundations of the Christian RELIGION (especially evangelical Christianity) is the Fall of Adam.  At some point Jesus is described as the redeemer BEFORE creation.  This suggests to me that God knew than humanity (Adam and Eve) would miss the mark of what mankind had been created to be (one definition of sin), and that without the Holy Spirit mankind would be incomplete.

I am an uneducated believer who has been around a long time.  One of the major influences on my thinking several years ago was an article entitled “The Rise and Fall of Christendom”.  How does this compare with the RELIGION that some of you were brought up with?

[HeleneParticipant]

@Old-Pete, enjoyed reading that link – I’m Australian so there are less ties between church and state. Sectarianism though was alive and well until maybe the 70’s or even later? I would assert that secularism is the dominant paradigm now, but others may argue differently. There has also been a traditional disdain for authority, including the church, in some quarters. I cannot imagine growing up in a country like Ireland for instance. Or even some parts of the US. I’ve tried to imagine that, but I just can’t wrap my head around it. A devout friend travelled some years ago travelled to a part of the US where she exclaimed “Oh Helene, it’s wonderful, they are all Christian there, it has permeated into everything and it’s so nice !” etc… Later, I thought to myself I couldn’t think of anything worse. That’s not the ideal type of society to me that it was to her. Not at all. It would appear correct, as stated in “The Rise and Fall of Christendom” that the institutionalising of Christianity was the death of it. But then I think back to the horrific tortures that were occurring, so maybe getting Constantine’s sponsorship wasn’t a bad thing…

Old-Helene

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