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Richard; no offence taken! We are all a product of our time and context. We read scripture with 20th-21st century eyes, liberal Christians tend to recognise that. And Anselm in speaking of the death of Jesus as satisfying God’s honour was using a model familiar in his time.
“Guiding principle of the universe” is my take on “logos”. No closer to the truth than any other term, just an attempt to get behind the label of ‘god’. The label has certainly evolved over time, from the tribal warrior god of the early old testament onwards, even though some would like to go back to the tribal warrior.
I’m still trying to figure out how taking a three-day dirt nap, from which you awaken immortal and undying forever, even remotely constitutes any form of “eternal sacrifice” whatsoever. Whole thing smacks of massive hoodwinking via cognitive dissonance, to me.
Moriah: sure. We don’t understand sacrifice these days. It stood to reason, in days gone by, that you had to make a sacrifice to your god/s. Everyone did, and they all understood it. We don’t now; the ‘once for all sacrifice’ is a victim of its own success.
What we do understand, though, is the value of a child, and what has been given to us is of that value, whether we call the giver God or not; even if you regard the term ‘son of god’ as a metaphor.
My two cents: I am very post-church, but very much an orthodox Christian. Jesus is good for my soul. As I walk the streets of Puerto Montt whispering God’s name (as close as I can get to the tetragrammaton’s vocalization) that… geez, that makes me happy. I am comforted – so comforted by God, enlightened by scripture and the questions I struggle with, I think of them as not seeing clearly, but one day I will know how I was known (1st Corinthians
) so I don’t fret.I disciple two girls. One I baptized a couple of months ago and the other one I’m baptizing this month, God willing. Their lives are so much, just so much fuller, richer and they’ve managed to move past their dysfunctional childhood riddled with abuse. I never looked for them nor did I preach to them as that is something I don’t believe in. They just showed up in my life asking why I was “different”. Why I had a sort of “light” that I shone on people. So, I told them about my own very personal journey with God… telling them no two journeys are alike. And they both asked for guidance. Today they smile. When I met them they didn’t. They just asked me for help with a look of pain on their faces.
To me, God has been a father when I lost mine. A provider when I went bankrupt at 30 years old, lost my house and had to move in with relatives. I saw God’s provision. I got a new house out of the blue. God was a street prophet I asked for in prayer once, the healing and preservation of my mother’s health (she got Cancer) and the warm presence in my room at night, when I need an ear to listen to me, or tender words of love because I feel frail and weary from financial struggles or from loneliness … or from missing my dad’s embrace.
To me God is life and goodness… and that’s my Christianity in a nutshell.
Love all you guys from these faraway lands of Chile…
AnonymousThanks for sharing sharing happy lee. I wish I could get back to that place with God. Not sure it’s possible at this point. Sometimes I feel it, but mostly I feel like I can’t even believe i was once in church and thinking i had the answers for everyone.
Much love to you,
Ash
I understand that to talk about transcendence one has to retain references to their world view of origin and for many here it appears to be Christianity. I have lost the desire to rehabilitate Christianity. That’s my preference because, for me, it takes a whole lot less mental gymnastics to create meaning for myself when I focus on what is true, rather than trying to make Christianity true.
I think the failure of retaining a Christian perspective even for liberal Christians is the assumption of an evil force in the world. This is just as difficult to prove as is god. I understand the idea of being part of a battle for good is a narrative that dominates many traditions. I have no real reason to believe in evil when there are far more probable explanations.
In my experience most “evil” behavior stems from some type of fear and ignorance. And the rest is due to mental illness that distorts perception. I’ve really never encountered anyone I would call evil. Usually that is given when no one can figure out what is wrong. It’s the same kind of “god of the gap” idea we see in other mysteries except its the “evil of the gap” argument. When we do that kind of thinking everyone tends to give up trying to find an answer. To me, it’s a form of intellectual laziness.
I have found that I can learn how to enjoy wonder quite freely without a god. The god assumption was very pervasive in my own world view for many years. I find life much lighter without it.
I agree Richard. I remember a quaint little story Karl Barth, the German theologian, told. He often visited the local prison and preached there. He said he met some very serious criminals, including murderers. But he discovered to his surprise that they were interesting, happy and even “good” people, in many ways, and often nicer than those outside.
Anonymous@Richard ! Yes. This is where it’s at for me.
“I have found that I can learn how to enjoy wonder quite freely without a god. The god assumption was very pervasive in my own world view for many years. I find life much lighter without it.”
@nakedpastor- the Karl Barth story rocks! Gah! I love Karl.
My own eprsonal studies and experience of quantum physics make it near impossible for me not to believe in a God, and our being in union yet still distinct from each other (retaining a soul, person, consiousness) does not make it difficult for me to see God as having the same and relating to him/she/it as I do to other human relationships.
I agree with Richard in his observation that he has yet to meet an evil person completely, this has been my own experience. And I have been in my lifetime both the upstanding citizen and the immoral pirate, and seen how life pressures (in the absence of strong beliefs to withhold me) pushed me towards a lot of darkness, a lot of gray, so that I believe given the right set of beliefs or perception or circumstances most would make better choices.
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