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AnonymousSince joining that spiritual discussion group, I’m hearing some of the people are into various things the church would label “demonic/occultic,” and I just want to ask you guys what your thoughts are regarding Reiki, hypnosis, Akashi Records, NLP, past life regression, various forms of meditation (Qigong and Third Eye Meditation), metaphysical, energy work, New Age, crystals, chakras, Wicca, etc.
Anyone have any actual experience with any of these things? If so, I would love to know whether they had a positive or negative affect on you. I just want to know if these type of things really can be harmful or if that is just one more thing the church has lied about???
I’m trying to educate myself on what these things are, and just reading about this stuff makes me feel anxious and fearful. But I have to wonder rather than being a valid fear, if it’s not just a “learned fear” that was instilled in me by the church. I know a couple people here have mentioned they enjoy doing Tarot Cards and that they are just cards like any other cards.
You’ve heard different groups of spirituality referred to as a cult. Come to find out the word cult just means a smaller cultural interchange.
I think there are those out to do harm, and what ever spiritual path they choose they will turn it into something ugly. But the same can be said for those with good intentions, no matter their path they will turn it to good. The Bible says that God knows our heart, if true (and I believe it is) than it knows what our motives and intentions are and in that case if it is for good than, it’s all good. But if your intentions are for evil, beware for what you put out into the world will surely bite you on the ass. I have practices some of these paths and found only good.
I’m unsure these days Jo. I think a lot of Christianity acts like a cult. I like what cDevon says, “I think there are those out to do harm, and what ever spiritual path they choose they will turn it into something ugly. ” There’s bad shit everywhere dear Jo. This being said, some of the members on TLS are into all kinds of interesting spiritual practices. I hope they answer your inquiries. There is a lot of good in the world. There are a lot of valid and good spiritual practices. It’s scary to open ourselves to the mystery of other things when we have been told for so long that they are bad. It would make anyone nervous. Be easy and good with yourself and take your time. And please keep us posted.
I can assure you that none of them are occult or demonic. Most of the people I have met who practice these things are pretty gentle and loving people. There is a general tendency to be non-judgmental and inclusive.
That being said I would say that if any of these practices start to center on one personality or guru or single authority I would engage into full skeptic mode. These practices can often over claim the benefits and there can often be a pressure to conform to the beliefs of the group just as any other human organization. If the goal of any practice is not directed toward self sufficiency and uses any kind of fear motivational narratives you need to run. Often these types of social contracts aren’t malicious, but the product of the group’s individual’s own insecurities and fears. Just as churches collect fearful and superstitious people, so do many of these practices when they are organized into communities.
The tricky thing is that all of these practices produce real phenomena that can be helpful, but there is little information on why they work and I suspect that they are much like rituals that help us connect with ourselves in new ways. I have participated in many of the things on your list and I have taken away a lot of helpful ideas from each one of them. I am no longer a joiner, but I am engaged in an independent exploration and I only hold on to things that produce real experiences.
I found it helpful to suspend my disbelief to get the full benefit from many of these practices because if you are in your judgmental brain you are going to miss out on the insights. I also learned to not codify or franchise what I gained and to hold it loosely as an individual insight. And just because one part of something works doesn’t mean everything it has to say is true.
I learned that I had to be rigorously honest with myself and not let social pressure make me claim things that I hadn’t actually experienced. One of the tests that I used with various groups is that I watched their reaction when I didn’t get the same thing out of it as the leaders did. If I noticed they didn’t really care if I had the same experience and they seemed confident in their own experience I tended to trust that more. If they got defensive and didn’t want to hear what I had to say, I realized that ego and fear were driving the leadership. I wasn’t offended because they didn’t listen to me, but it did indicate to me that what ever practice they were doing wasn’t working.
When I meet people where I can see that their lives are clearly working I become really interested in what they practice. I have learned a lot even from people I have had only brief contact with. I hope this helps ease your fears about exploring new ideas and trusting your own intuition. Most things are revealed in the moment and I think it is important to not allow the past or fears of the future distract you from what is right in front of you at each moment.
I love this, “Most things are revealed in the moment and I think it is important to not allow the past or fears of the future distract you from what is right in front of you at each moment.” thanks Richard.
It sounds like you need to find a “mind/body/spirit” festival. These can be a mercantile, but it is basically dozens of vendors spruiking their brand of spiritual enlightenment to anyone who stops to listen. They have to be gracious and tolerant or they’d get thrown out. Much of what is there are devotees of angels, crystals, new age meditation, aura readings, you name it – it’s probably there! There will be fortune-telling via several means, including tarot cards. The important thing is to go with an open mind and a willingness to say “no thanks”. At the most recent one in Sydney there were even two church groups! (There will be non-spiritual things, too: chinese massage, mind-toys, heatpacks, spa vendors, etc. Even though it’s “Mind, Body, Spirit”, everyone remembers the “Sprit” things.)
I’ve always be interested in things the church calls “occult”. Remember that this just actually means “hidden” and probably came to be applied to spirituality the church disagreed with because they had been driven underground by the church. And some of the pagan teachings genuinely had knowledge the practioners would not share to just anyone. The Internet has largely destroyed that, of course.
I have started to regard myself as Wiccan. I began looking at some of the church’s history with a more critical eye and, amongst other things, that led me to find a place outside the church to look back at it. I happened to choose Wicca for a variety of complicated reasons, some of them going back a long time. I believe it has given me benefit. Amongst other things, it has given me an insight into the Christian god I didn’t have before. And given me a path out from underneath what I called “the Christian guilt”.
Incidentally, Tarot cards have a lot of Christian/Church imagery in them. Many fundamentalist Christians would not know that and would not understand why, either.
Wade.
AnonymousThanks very much Devon, Star, and Richard for responding to my question. I almost talked myself out of starting this forum, but I’m sure glad I didn’t. Just hearing your viewpoints makes me feel a lot better.
Richard – you always offer such well thought out insights. What you said was extremely helpful, and I am definitely going to keep that in mind!
I’m just going to take it slow and not feel pressured to try things just because someone else is doing it. I will see where MY path leads me and listen to my gut-instincts. Just tonight I went on Amazon and looked up some of the books people had mentioned. A couple of them sounded really good, but I didn’t feel the need to read any of the rest. It made me feel good that I really listened to my own intuition.
AnonymousWade – you snuck in there on me. I really appreciate your insights as well!
AnonymousI grew up in an extraordinarily dysfunctional home. It is not an understatement to say I raised my parents as well as myself – they did not raise me. I could never compete with my much older sister. In kindergarten I was told I was retarded b/c I was too shy to do show and tell – my mother started me in school a year early and I had already learned I was weird and no good and had nothing of value to say or contribute to the world, except to do whatever I could to make everyone around me feel better, to ease their burdens. I was bullied to the point of suicide in high school and had extremely dysfunctional relationships until my early 30’s. I had to turn to alternative means like energy work, psychic phenonemon, crystals/flower essences/alternative healing methods to save my life b/c nothing traditional was working. Not medication, not traditional talk therapy, and certainly not religion that told me to just forgive everyone. I have benefitted tremendously from these modalities, but learned like everything else they have their dark side. I mean hell, I have a dark side. Christianity has a dark side, wicca has a dark side, yoga has a dark side, a lot of these new age ‘leaders’ and yoga ‘gurus’ are just as ego-based, abusive and exploitational as many of the Christian ministers we’ve talked about on here. These days I consider myself a survivor of the new age movement, as well as of traditional Christianity. I will always be independent, and have taken the best of each modality and made it a brick in my foundation. The bricks my parents, bullies, bosses and ex-husband threw at me? Yeah, they’re in there, too. I forgive them but I’m no chump and will not have them or anyone like them in my life in any capacity ever again.
AnonymousP.S. What was particularly helpful to me was aura photography; the first photo I had done, well you couldn’t actually see me at all, just a big circle of white light with a band of blue on the top and a ball of gold coming out of my right hand. It was the first time in my life I can remember thinking that maybe I was something other than a big pile of shit. I looked up what a white aura means, it means either that you’re dying or that you’re an ‘angel on earth.’ Well, I’m still here and I’m no angel but I have had my aura photo taken regularly since then and now have my own equipment. Some people are scared of what they’ll see, thinking that devil horns or something will show up. Most people just stare at themselves and the colors around them and say wow, that they didn’t know they were so beautiful and that they don’t feel so alone anymore. It seems to open them up spiritually and emotionally. Just my thoughts.
Many years ago while I was still the pastor of my church I bought a book on Wicca, studied it, and took notes. I was amazed at how similar the practices were to the practices of Vineyard, as well as most of the beliefs. I actually preached a sermon comparing some of our spirituality with what we called “witchcraft”. I simply wanted to raise awareness that much of what we believe and do is based in superstition. It didn’t go over as well as I’d hoped.
I have experience with some of the things that are on your list, Jo, and I would agree with what others have said – anything can be used for good or ill. Mostly my experiences in this area (primarily Reiki, crystals, oracle cards, chakra work, astrology, shamanic work) have been extremely positive. I had (and still sometimes have) some “learned fear” that shows up based on the lessons I learned in my fundamentalist childhood about how dangerous this stuff is, but I have not let it stop me from exploring. I do think it helps to maintain a bit of skepticism – there are plenty of charlatans out there who over-claim the benefits – but I have benefited greatly from my experiences. In fact, it’s done more to strengthen my faith and my belief that Spirit/God/Divine can speak in and through any of us (including me!).
I do Reiki…from a distance….when my mom got sick I started to feel this energy come from my hands before I even really knew what it was. I do it when I pray and ask for the energy to be sent to certain people or the world. I have an extensive science background so it still freaks me out that I feel this energy coming from my hands. Sometimes I wonder if I should do more with, get certified or what not, but I do not want to be seen as a charlatan or ask for money to do that.
There is a book called Reiki and the Holy Spirit. I have it on Kindle. It is about a woman who found she had the ability to heal with laying on of hands. She ended up going to seminary and works as a chaplain in a hospital. She talks about how this is her ministry and how Jesus healed others. If we are supposed to follow him and can do anything in His name, why can’t we heal others? It’s a very good book.
AnonymousI am blown away by the stuff ALL of you have shared on this subject! I really appreciate everyone’s input. It’s been very helpful! My fear level is nearly non-existant at this point. But I know how easily that can change, so I copied and pasted all or your responses into a word doc so I can re-read your insights whenever fear tries to raise its ugly head again. I am locked, loaded and ready for bear. It doesn’t get much better than that, right?
Kenetha, and AgnosticBeliever – I especially appreciate what you both shared about Reiki, because that was the one thing I read about that I kind of felt drawn to. I will definitely check out that book about Reiki and the Holy Spirit. There is a retired husband and wife in my discussion group who used to be very involved in the Presbyterian Church. They finally left the institutional church and have become certified hypnotherapists, Reiki practitioners, and a couple other things. I don’t know if they charge for it or not, but I know they consider it a ministry. They are thrilled that they get to help people in this way. I can see myself doing some Reiki sessions with them somewhere down the road.
Everyone else has basically said it already, there are some great benefits to gained from a lot of these practices, just as there abuses and evil that occur from them. Same could be said for any spiritual practice including Christianity. Though its funny how traditionally speaking, the church has always branded these ‘other’ spiritual practices as heathenish when a lot of the foundational basis for Christian tradition and practice is based very much on various Pagan traditions, adopted by the early Medieval church upon Rome’s conversion to Christianity. In order to ease into the mass conversion process of Europe, the Catholic church assimilated many Pagan practices into the church so others would fall into line with it much easier. We have the obvious practices of Christmas and Easter, based on birth dates of Pagan gods, but use of incense, singing of hymns, use of holy images such as the cross, but even our entire perspective on the nature of good and evil, Hell, Election and abhorration of ‘the flesh’ is based on Pagan gnosticism such as Manichaeism (a sect that Augustine belonged to). Christianity has a lot to owe the traditional routes of these so-called ‘occults’. Just a thought
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