Clashing with Christianity

Blog Forums Reconstruction Personal Spirituality Clashing with Christianity

This topic contains 11 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  Danielle 4 months, 3 weeks ago.

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  • #15343

    Andreas
    Participant

    I’ve started writing down what my issues with Christianity are and what I see in it that’s worth holding on to. As I’m doing that I’m asking myself what really matters to me. What are things that I can’t compromise with? One of the more important things is a hard-earned lesson I received whilst living in a intentional community of sorts.

    This was at a place with different groups of people, only one of which was this community I was a part of. At the time I was there they had accepted a couple of refugees who were hiding from the authorities until they could get permission to stay in Sweden.

    One of these refugees was a young guy from Eastern Europe who at first was very outgoing and willing to help out. But it soon became clear that he had some serious issues. He would get into fights and get on everyone’s nerves. He would lash out and say very hurtful things to us who were trying to approach and get to know him. Even if you tried your darndest to get to know him, the smallest thing could cause him not to speak with you for days.

    It very soon became clear to us that his life story was that of abandonment and rejection. Now the way he was behaving started to make much more sense, he felt rejected so he rejected others, thereby feeling even more rejected. I’ve never met someone with greater trust issues. He was rejection personified because of what life had taught him about other people.

    For many and for myself, he made the stay there almost unbearable. But he also taught me one of the most valuable lessons about other people. After some time I understood that he is just like me, but in a much more extreme way. Getting hurt and feeling rejected has happened to me also from time to time but perhaps in smaller scale. I recognized that same pattern of befriending, getting hurt and then renouncing.

    Now we didn’t share the same life story whatsoever. He had been hurt by his parents, his family and others in such a brutal way. But because his feeling of rejection was so pervasive and plain to see – we were able to recognize our own feelings of rejection that much easier. I was able to see that I’m him, sure there are differences but ultimately we’re all the same.

    This was a revolution to me. People are people. Yes some behave in extreme ways but the strong contrast they provide helps us see ourselves that much clearer.

    This is important to me. I’m not giving this up. This brings me to present day. I’m reading a short book by Rowan Williams, former Archbishop of Canterbury, called “Why study the past?” In this he gives an outline of church history and one thing really stands out to me. The importance of difference.

    In the milieu of the Roman empire, the early church emphasizes the importance of difference from the rest of society. It’s not just that Christians were to behave differently but by their very nature they considered themselves different, they were “resident aliens” in this world. This is of course something we still recognize, something that Christians today take for granted.

    When writing on the topic of virginity, Williams makes a revealing statement:

    To read this – as moderns typically do – as no more than a negative attitude to sexuality is to miss the intimate connections between various kinds of refusal and distancing on the part of early Christians and their conviction of difference over against the sacred power of the state.

    It’s as if “refusal, distancing and difference” is in the very DNA of Christianity. And this is probably where my own convictions clash the most with this religion. I believe that the ultimate attribute of existence is unity. People are people. I know that I am you because of that experience I had with another human being. I refuse this notion of difference… I just have to figure out what the consequences of all this will be… What will this clash entail?

    • This topic was modified 6 months, 1 week ago by  Andreas.
    • This topic was modified 6 months, 1 week ago by  Andreas.
    #15359
    Profile photo of cowboyjunkey
    cowboyjunkey
    Participant

    Thanks for this thought provoking post.

    As I am now “out” in the public sphere I’m trying to figure out what parts of Christianity I can hold onto and what I can’t. I know there is wisdom in the Bible. But some parts are just man making God do what he he needs at the time.

    I think the refusal, distancing, and difference is a part that I don’t agree with (anymore). I hadn’t thought about that before but that’s how we get all the denominations or little groups. Everyone needs to be different, or to have a war they need to hold up from the hostile world outside.

    I heard somewhere about life being a constant act of one hand open one hand closed. Knowing what to let go and what to hold onto. Thanks.

    #15365

    Andreas
    Participant

    It is part of the way we all constitute identity and sense of self – We begin with drawing up boundaries. Which is a good thing to be sure but that ability might also do harm when put to use in other contexts such as religion.

    One hand open, one hand closed – I like it.

    #15398
    Profile photo of Peter Stanley
    Peter Stanley
    Participant

    I’ve just been rambling on Facebook. Maybe we need to distinguish between the Christian RELIGION (or CHRISDTENDOM) and the Christian FAITH!

    I found myself for the second time in 1995 having to reconsider just about everything I had ever been taught. It’s been a long journey. I’ve had a bit of a reputation for asking some of the awkward questions to which there are no easy answers.

    Civilisation as we know it hasn’t been around for more than perhaps 13,000 years. In that time there has been the development of many religions trying to give explanations for the purpose of life . . . and there has been the rise and fall of empires as men have tried to impose their thoughts. Could it be that this is allpart of an ongoing learning process where we will eventually recognise that the ways of peace we do not know? Could it be that just as we have seen the fall major world empires (with one more to go?) we are seeing the fall of the Christian RELIGION?

    #15399

    David Hayward
    Keymaster

    I think we are seeing the fall of Christendom for sure. We are in the middle of it.

    #15400
    Profile photo of cowboyjunkey
    cowboyjunkey
    Participant

    When major events unfold over generations the ones living in it don’t see the full picture. I believe we are seeing the fall of Christianity now too.

    #15403

    Andreas
    Participant

    So what do you all include in “Christendom” and what are the signs of it’s “fall” and what do you mean by “fall?”

    #15404
    Profile photo of Peter Stanley
    Peter Stanley
    Participant

    Here’s an article I wrote on ‘Christendom’ a few years ago.

    #15405
    Profile photo of Vinny
    Vinny
    Participant

    This might be slight OT, but close enough that I feel comfortable inserting myself into the conversation.

    Lately I find myself holding back from responding to various friends and acquaintances I have through my wife’s United Methodist ministerial credentials. I see comments about the very real rift in many “mainline” denominations between conservative and liberal factions and folks are either wringing their hands or else refusing to believe that schisms could be happening, because God/Jesus/something inspiring.

    So I bite my tongue rather than be a jackass and post something like “this is all just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic” or “the Christian industrial complex is crumbling and will be mostly dead within 50 years”. It’s probably the best course of action since I don’t have everyday contact with these folks, although I’m fairly certain that in many cases they have bought in to the hierarchy since it provides a pretty stable income (pastors, like many people, have difficulty acknowledging “sunk cost”).

    It’s almost as if I’m censoring myself because even in non-evangelical church settings, heresy is still heresy at some point and it would be deemed most impolite to impose my developing atheistic/cynical/apathetic feelings into the midst of (nominal, at least) Christians. Maybe acceptance of atheism in the U.S. is on the (slow) rise, but certainly not among those with a personal stake in the continuance of the religious status quo.

    #15411
    Profile photo of Peter Stanley
    Peter Stanley
    Participant

    Vinny, I can relate to that. When the leadership of the Sabbath-keeping church we were attending announced that much of their theology was misguided, our family of 14 related by marriage was effectively ‘destroyed’. Our children are ‘atheists’ and while we met in church some 55 years ago my wife has now made it clear that she prefers not to discuss our somewhat differing beliefs.

    As a Brit with a fair understanding of the Christian scene in America I sense we are seeing the slow death of evangelicalism and a growth of those who consider themselves to be SBNR – Spiritual But Not Religious.

    #15414

    Andreas
    Participant

    Well-written article Old-Pete. I could see Christendom going both ways. The signs of it’s fall are apparent, certainly in Sweden, but there are other movements as well not least a new ecumenical and liturgical movement with an affinity for the offices and structures of early Christendom. And there is also this persistent thought, particularly among evangelicals, that Christians are called to hold certain key offices in society, to have a Christian in every major arena; politics, media, business, education, health care etc. I believe the Mormons have a similar agenda.

    Vinny, that could be a wise choice – if it crumbles, it crumbles.

    #15740

    Danielle
    Participant

    I don’t know – it may be dying in the West, but it sure is growing in Africa, the Middle-East and Asia.

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