Do we have a message?

[GaryParticipant]

I made the following post today over in naked pastor and it has really got me thinking.  Whatever your beliefs are, do you believe you have a message to share.  And if you do…what would it be?   This is not about proselytizing or changing someone’s mind.  It is more about what you have to offer another.  Read my post below and then I would love some feedback.
For many years in a large church production of an Easter drama I played the part of Christ through a long and drawn out (50 minutes) crucifixion scene. (We had two Jesus’ due to the extensive makeup for the crucifixion scenes) It was all very elaborate with me dragging the cross right in front of the audience and the soldiers whipping and yelling at me to live performance of the Via Dolorosa. The actual crucifixion was carried out to Watch The Lamb, complete with a very theatrical nailing sequence and raising the cross and literally letting it drop a foot into a pocket while I screamed in agony. The only words spoken in the 2 hour drama for many years were the words of Christ on the cross. When there were moments of silence the sound of sobbing could always be heard in the crowd.
But the part that always got to me the most was after the death and thunder and lightning when most had fled in fear. Mary sat quietly at the foot of the cross and cried while a very talented singer sang Mary Did You Know. It often took much steely determination not to cry along with her. The tears were never an act. The performers cried in each others arms backstage following each emotional burial scene bringing the sequence to a close. I believe I counted some 50 performances we did over 8 years to crowds ranging from 500 to 1200. Never once did an actor struggle to find tears.
I look back on that experience with very mixed emotions. I guess I am glad I did it for it has taught me much about the power of emotional control in a group setting. It was the highest (and most painful) emotional experience the church could provide me. We told our story to many many thousands of souls and many hundred made professions of faith. Yet I know I could never do such a thing again.
I have not lost my faith. But I have found a change in my faith that makes such dramatic emotional manipulation just seem wrong somehow. I am no longer convinced that that is the story Christ wants us to tell.

• This topic was modified 1 year, 11 months ago by  Gary.
• This topic was modified 1 year, 11 months ago by  Gary.
• This topic was modified 1 year, 11 months ago by  Gary.
• This topic was modified 1 year, 11 months ago by  David Hayward.

[GaryParticipant]

Hmm…seems that every time I edit a typo it compresses the paragraphs back together.  And 3 times the limit to fixing things?  LOL

[AngParticipant]

Just reading your description brings the scene to life to me.  Like you, I have not lost my faith.  But a lot of my beliefs are changing.  I saw this quote yesterday:

Change~  One of the hardest lessons in life is letting go.  Whether it’s guilt, anger, love, loss or betrayal.  Change is NEVER easy.  We fight to hold on and we fight to let go.

I was strong in my beliefs for so long and now for them to be changing so drastically in the past two years is freeing and, at times, frightening too.   I think churches have historically (and unknowingly) used emotional blackmail in so many ways.  It is one of those things that it has been done that way so long that they do not even realize they are doing it.  It is just the way it is.  So much of church, as I saw it, was based on performance and how much you could do to ‘promote God/Jesus’ to others.  There was always some type of promotion to get more people to come to church;  while I never heard a promotion to tell people about Jesus.  There were big emphasis on baptisms but when those people quit coming to church, they just went after new people to baptize.

Sadly, I have to say I was a participant in all of it.  I feel much more at peace with my faith now.

I wonder if every person would take a year break from their church, how many would return?

[Anonymous]

Do we need to live our lives with the intent of being a message bearer?  Isn’t everyone, just by the way they choose to live and relate to others, offering a message of sorts?  I come from a deeply evangelical family.  I have had to go through a barrage of expectations that were put upon me, concerning this subject.   I was blessed to be able to get free from my families demands and expectations, I know many who haven’t been as blessed as me.  All I want to share about this subject is, talk with your heart to God, HE will make the way for you and show you how to walk it.  Keep holding onto HIS benevolent hand through all the scare tactics life or people may throw at you. Don’t let go of the assurance of being a beloved child, don’t let anyone tell you you are less than. Don’t believe anyone who condems your faith because it is not exactly like theirs.  Most people are deeply insecure with themselves and their faith, even leadership in church.   I have come to see the strong evangelicals and  the uber manipulative Pentecostals as people of a much more delicate or even non-existant faith than the one I am blessed with.  It’s really true that the most spiritually insecure people seem to be the most socially powerful, in church or in life.  Our paths are individual, our paths are not roles to be fulfilled for the group or society.  We all have our own paths and in that we all automatically  have a valuable contribution to the whole of mankind, just by us being true to ourselves in our journey.  We are more diverse than snowflakes, us humans.  Snowflakes can repeat, they have the data, people don’t repeat, it’s an impossibility of our biology.

[GaryParticipant]

Change, radical change, has described my path for nearly 10 years now.  It was terrifying at first.  Now it brings comfort to not have to cling to something for dear life.

 

Kathy I totally agree.  I do not believe we are message bearers any more in the sense I used to.  In fact this is why I titled the thread the way I did.  I do believe there is one universal truth that encompasses the best of ALL beliefs…Love.  I have come to believe that this is the only thing I have to offer to others.  I think I believe we have a message…but not a message of words.  I believe our message is to live our lives in such a way as to be a help and comfort to those we come in contact with and have opportunity.

[Anonymous]

I am so happy for you, Gary.  You seem to have navigated through the terror that many just can’t break through.  Fear and fear of change keeps many brethren shackled to very  dark lifestyles.  This is a community of some really strong and free people.  It’s good to hear stories like yours.

 

[Caryn LeMurParticipant]

Gary:  I agree with your premise that emotional manipulation is questionable – that is, that its use should be examined. 

However, I offer that you did this only once per year as a reminder of what Jesus went through, and you stated that the actors were not manipulating, but re-living the death of Jesus.  A play is a three-dimensional human theatrical presentation – it is designed to move the heart of the viewer to perceive some ‘new’ insight.    Those that attend most likely know that ‘theatrical’ means ‘lights, staging, music, and clever script’ – so, there was no entrapment.  Your play helped people to perceive Jesus in a new way… and that is no more an evil manipulation than me re-introducing a mutual friend in a manner that is exceptionally positive (within a pounding dance club that all three of us enjoy).

If ‘manipulation’ results in a positive introduction/re-introduction and allowing people to consider a new relationship – then, I find little wrong with such ‘match-making’.

If ‘manipulation’ goes beyond the introduction, and is meddling, pushing, or prodding for my pre-ordained decision about your marriage to Jesus… or continues to try to force your marriage to be like mine (and even subordinate to mine) – then, I find much wrong with such a cruel ‘mother-in-law’.

Thank you for your honesty and vulnerability that you shared in your post.

Much love in Christ always and unconditionally; Caryn

[GaryParticipant]

Caryn I appreciate your comments and of course as actors we were very sincere and purpose driven.  But as I reflect back on it I recognize that we were every bit as much manipulated as any person in the audience…perhaps even more so.  And yes of course the audience understood the whole theatrical element of it…in fact many of them craved it and kep returning night after night seeking the emotional connection.

 

I can’t help but comment on your following statement though…  “If ‘manipulation’ results in a positive introduction/re-introduction and allowing people to consider a new relationship – then, I find little wrong with such ‘match-making’.”  

 

Please allow me to humbly but strongly disagree with this statement.  If manipulation is used to somehow shove people in a direction WE have determined they need to go…then what is it we really hope to accomplish?  We are introducing them to OUR version of God; which in my experience is one which finds it necessary to constantly beat them down and make them feel so unworthy.  ANY justification of manipulation to bring about OUR desired outcome, IMHO, completely misses the mark of who God is.  As I said in my closing statement…I am no longer convinced this is the story Christ wants us to tell.

[GaryParticipant]

Thanks so much for the kind words Kathy.  Obviously my life, like all of ours, is very much a work in progress.  But I have found that on my journey, each step forward brings more peace and contentment.

[happyleeParticipant]

Hi Gary, emotional manipulation is questionable, I agree.  And I’ve seen it done with the Tithe, the sermon, etc.

Like you, I’ve been rediscovering God and my relationship with him.  All I know for certain is his love and grace.  Church is a man-devised institution with its own rituals and subculture that just doesn’t do it for me anymore.  I haven’t been an active participant in more than ten years and only five years ago did I stop even trying to “wish” I had the drive to attend.  I realized that the guilt I felt for never having wanted to attend in the first place was not of God and I also discovered that church is just that: man-made.  Even the way we worship has been hijacked and made to fit the mold of “hands raises, eyes closed, sing for an hour” and we call that “worship”.

Not for me.

I love God.  So much.  And even in the darkest moments of my life, when I see little hopes of a better future ahead for me and my family, I remember to live as though God does exist, loves me, wants my best and consistently acts on my behalf (as Ronna Detrick put it so well).  I’ve seen my share of miracles.  Now I’m striving to learn contentment.  The church never helped me do this, it basically bound me up in man-made rules and added a huge amount of guilt to everything I liked and lived.

I do believe Romans 8.28.  I trust in God’s love and in trying to live as best you can, being kind to everyone and praying for wisdom and grace to walk this world while blessing others – with no judgement and no imposition of faith.  Christ never imposed, he listened and cared.  I believe this is all we can do.

 

[GaryParticipant]

Thanks for the great response happylee,

 

I find most everything in your comment resonates with me well.  I especially love the final comment.  ” Christ never imposed, he listened and cared.  I believe this is all we can do.”  

 

Perfectly stated.

[Caryn LeMurParticipant]

Gary:  I wanted to say ‘thank you’ for posting your disagreement so well.  ‘Being hard on the idea, but soft on the people’ is not scripture, but it conveys well your handling of my post.

I think such ‘engagment’ is what the beleivers need to grow… a type of point and counterpoint that seeks to explain, rather than emotionally overwhelm or exclude.

Blessings to you!  Much love in Christ always and unconditionally; Caryn

[SavageSotoParticipant]

Thank you for your story, Gary. I’ve seen similar performances and agree with you.

For me, I don’t know that I have a message beyond this:

Nobody really needs anything religion or any spiritual movement has to offer other than a simple compassion and understanding for one another. It’s like the Beatles said, “all you need is love”. Such a simple message that is often drowned out by theology and methodology.

[Author]

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