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AnonymousI’m a part of a small home church. We left a bigger church a few years ago after our friend (and worship pastor) was falsely accused of horrible things (by a church member) and he was fired. Our little home church doesn’t have any one leader. We all take turns leading discussions. This week is my week to lead a discussion and we’re finishing up reading through a children’s bible called the Jesus Storybook Bible. Side note: excellent book and if I had been taught Bible stories from this book I might’ve grown up feeling my more loved and secure. Anyway, the story this week is the resurrection. You know, Mary goes to the tomb and finds it empty. Well, to my amazement as I’ve read all accounts of this story, every single one is different. WAY different. WTF? I’ve gone to church and studied the Bible my whole life and didn’t know that they were this different (or maybe I just didn’t want to see it). Shoot, if this is to be the climax of the Christian story, don’t you think each account should at least agree? I understand that different writers have different perspectives, but did some writers just not care about the correct details of the most important story of the faith? I’m kinda pissed right now.
My faith has changed A LOT over the past 5 years and still is changing dramatically and (if you asked my former self) sacrilegiously. Honestly, I don’t even know how much I really care about the resurrection. I am personally more inspired by what Jesus taught and how he lived his life and what he stood for. But, I don’t know if I can go lead a discussion about the “good news” of the resurrection. I don’t even know what I believe right now or if it even matters. And I’m okay with that. In theory, I should be able to just voice all this honestly to the “come as you are” group, but I think some people will take it very personally and defensively and not even hear where I’m coming from or how frustrating this is. How do you think should I lead this discussion?
Here are the details of the story inconsistencies…
Who Visited Jesus’ Tomb?:
The women visiting Jesus’ tomb is central to the resurrection story, but who visited?
Mark 16:1 – Three women visit Jesus’ tomb: Mary Magdalene, a second Mary, and Salome
Matthew 28:1 – Two women visit Jesus’ tomb: Mary Magdalene and another Mary
Luke 24:10 – At least five women visit Jesus’ tomb: Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, Joanna, and “other women.”
John 20:1 – One woman visits Jesus’ tomb: Mary Magdalene. She later fetches Peter and another discipleWhen Did the Women Visit the Tomb?:
Whoever visited and however many there were, it’s also not clear when they arrived.
Mark 16:2 – They arrive after sunrise
Matthew 28:1 – They arrive at about dawn
Luke 24:1 – It is early dawn when they arrive
John 20:1 – It is dark when they arriveWhat Was the Tomb Like?:
It’s not clear what the women saw when they arrived at the tomb.
Mark 16:4, Luke 24:2, John 20:1 – The stone in front of Jesus’ tomb had been rolled away
Matthew 28:1-2 – The stone in front of Jesus’ tomb was still in place and would be rolled away laterWho Greets the Women?:
The women aren’t alone for long, but it’s not clear who greets them.
Mark 16:5 – The women enter the tomb and meet one young man in there
Matthew 28:2 – An angel arrives during an earthquake, rolls away the stone, and sits on it outside. Pilate’s guards are also there
Luke 24:2-4 – The women enter the tomb and two men suddenly appear — it’s not clear if they are inside or outside
John 20:12 – The women do not enter the tomb, but there are two angels sitting insideWhat Do the Women Do?:
Whatever happened, it must have been pretty amazing. The gospels are inconsistent in how the women react, though.
Mark 16:8 – The women keep quiet, despite being told to spread the word
Matthew 28:8 – The women go tell the disciples
Luke 24:9 – The women tell “the eleven and to all the rest.”
John 20:10-11 – Mary stays to cry while the two disciples just go home-
This topic was modified 2 years, 1 month ago by
David Hayward.
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This topic was modified 1 year, 11 months ago by David Hayward.
Wow Virginia, I love this! I like the things you are grappling with in the story! Yay you! Thank you so much for sharing it… it’s got me thinking thru it again. “My faith has changed A LOT over the past 5 years and still is changing dramatically and (if you asked my former self) sacrilegiously. Honestly, I don’t even know how much I really care about the resurrection. I am personally more inspired by what Jesus taught and how he lived his life and what he stood for. But, I don’t know if I can go lead a discussion about the “good news” of the resurrection. I don’t even know what I believe right now or if it even matters. And I’m okay with that. ”
These are good and true words. Voicing them here is awesome for all of us who wonder right along with you. It’s like the controversy and question about whether Jesus was married or not… I simply don’t care. But, like you I am drawn to Jesus and I’m finding that I like it that all the stories are a bit different… because I think I’m believing these days that we/I am the rest of the story. How we live our lives and listen to the internal dialogue makes all the difference.
I think you should just teach the resurrection for what it is. The most important part of the story is that Christ resurrected. The most important part of the story is that this mind-blowing God, who probably lives in millions of dimensions (as opposed to us living in 3D) and who was not created by anyone, who is infinite and beyond our comprehension, chose to create the cosmos and us along with it. But how could he communicate with us when his very presence could drive us mad (Israel was afraid when Moses was on Mt. Sinai with God – and Moses could see only his back, yet came down with unbearable light on his features)… So this God who wants to reconnect and make sense of all this humanity for us, cannot do it as he is… so he becomes human. And relates to us at our core level, one human, one “friend” to another.
Some people witnessed this and wrote about it. Gradually, over time, these writings passed from one hand to another… then others got together and (we can only trust that those were moved by God) to create the biblical New Testament cannon as we know it today.
The resurrection is proof that the awful thing we call death will be no more.
The rest are details.
AnonymousFor me the resurrection is a metaphor reminding us that each moment is a new moment, a chance for a fresh start, and of the impermanence of situations.
AnonymousThe difference in details is no surprise. If you ask 5 different people about the same event, you will get 5 different answers. I agree with whoever said don’t worry about the details. What is the importance of the event itself? If you don’t know how you feel about the Resurrection, maybe you could just present the Biblical details (like you did to us), and just ask the people present to share what the Resurrection means to them.
AnonymousI can’t help but go to the common denominator, the most consistent happening, the pattern. And for me, it’s the women! What would it mean to focus on a woman’s experience of the resurrection more than the resurrection itself? Why is it that the text allows for them to be the ones who experience this story? And what would happen if we were to allow such over and over again in death…and life…Perhaps, a resurrection?!? A life where only death has bee known…
My bias, to be sure, but this is the power of women’s stories – birthing life, despite the odds, over and over again.
AnonymousThank you guys, so much. This has helped me through me freak out. I think I will focus on what resurrection symbolizes in our lives and how redemption stories are good news for everyone. It doesn’t necessarily have to mean telling people that Jesus raised from the dead, but helping people to take a dark death time and walk with them into the light and life. THAT’S the good news. Making the resurrection apply to people’s lives right now. Ahhh, now I’m excited. There it is. I will take all of these comments into account. Thank you.
I always wondered about all the inconsistencies in the Bible. I had a pastor tell me one time that you could find a verse to say anything you needed it to say….
I’m looking forward to knowing how the meeting goes and how you feel afterward. Sounds like you have found the true ‘church’… it sounds good.
As I’ve been catching up today on all the posts I keep wishing we had a “LIKE” button like on FB. So many great comments…. so many highly intelligent and insightful people here!
My daughter is taking a college seminar “The Bible and Science”. You would be amazed at all the inconsistencies she is learning in class. Since people wrote the Bible… it’s really no surprise. Hope your lesson goes well Virginia!
Inquisitiveness and questioning are inevitable parts of the life of faith. Where there is certainty there is no room for faith. – P. Yancey
You know, I’ve always thought that if God could be demonstrated scientifically, then faith is moot. If no faith were needed to know God, then Jesus would have come with a display of power that would have sent everyone to their knees. But he didn’t. He chose to come as the freak, the fringe-dweller, the unattractive guy (scripture says he was not attractive – Isaiah 53:2); the guy with no home or possessions; the guy that hung out with prostitutes and tax collectors. And furthermore he liked good wine. Christ got tired, got emotional, cracked jokes (as the human being he was), his stomach hurt, he was afraid (“take away this cup from me”) and even on the cross, he dared say “Eloi, Eloi, Lama Sabactani” (“God, God, why have you forsaken me”). If Christ doubted, Christ himself… then one can say it is indeed all about faith.
I sometimes think of the Nobel prize winning scientists who discovered DNA. When asked about their discovery, Watson and Crick said that DNA was flawless – perfect. And it resembled a language. They added that because of its perfection , it could not be possible for it to have just “generated spontaneously” and then “evolved”. They stated there was intelligent design behind DNA.
That’s scientific enough for me.
AnonymousThanks for sharing your process on this. It was nice to read and see it evolve. Glad you feel excited now. If the details are contradictory, use that. What do contradictions tell you about resurrection? That it is messy? That the details of how it happens don’t matter? How can that help us? Trust the inaccuracies are there for a reason maybe.
I also agree and it is one of the “problems” I have had with the Bible… human beings wrote it. But even despite that vulnerability, it’s a very good read with a terrific story line. And valuable lessons. And it raises a lot of questions. And teaches me to be more comfortable with mystery.
ChaseM
AnonymousThe discussion went well. I DID express how frustrating it was for me that the story had such dramatically different details. There was one person who had a hard time with that and said how much she “hates it” when people say that…. Anyway, I focused on what resurrection means in our daily lives and we talked about the most recent “resurrection” or “redemption” stories in our lives. It went pretty well considering. Thanks for you support and encouragement. There wasn’t anyone else I felt like I could express my doubts and frustrations to without being judged and lectured. I love this place
Thanks for the update! yay for you! yay for the discussion! Well done!
Hey MeetVirginia: Perhaps that one person’s response “There was one person who had a hard time with that and said how much she “hates it” when people say that” was the most important thing that happened?! It’s obvious her “hate” for it is rooted in something significant that perhaps you stirred up.
AnonymousVirginia – Thanks for letting us know how it went. Glad to hear the discussion went well!
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