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I’m out for my first official hike of the season. It’s 77 degrees out today and for those of you who know anything about Phoenix, you’ll know that it was over 100 degrees just last week! I hiked through my “crisis of faith,” and I hiked through my departure from faith. For a while these trails became my new church, where I went on Sunday mornings instead of being in a service. I love hiking and do some of my best thinking on trails. Today I brought my tablet along to journal whatever came to me. What’s been rolling around my head this morning is how best to form cohesion within the church. Yup I like to tackle big things out here, lol.
I know this may seem like a strange concern for me to have. I’m a non-theist and no longer a part of any church or religious group. However my friends, co-workers, patients, and some of you are still very much a part of religion and church. I bring this here because we’ve managed to build a community here that embraces diversity. It’s really a beautiful thing that has grown from our unique takes on faith and spirituality. So how do those of you still in the church suggest bringing this to your body? As I think back about my old church, I can’t imagine talking about some of things discussed here with them as a group. Certain individuals come to mind, but not the entirety of the church. Am I being naive to expect that community such as this can exist within the walls of a church? Does this kind of community already exists in churches I just don’t know about? A common thing that the followers of my blog often voiced was that they’d love to stay in church, “BUT.” There was always a but that had them sitting on the fence. So how exactly would you kill the “BUTS” and unify your body? Is it even possible?
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This topic was modified 2 years ago by
David Hayward.
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This topic was modified 1 year, 11 months ago by David Hayward.
I’m not trying to rain on your parade, but I remember when I was involved in community formation within a church model. The studies show that if you want a new community, it is far more likely to succeed if you start from scratch. It was extremely rare for an existing church community to shift. What happened generally with existing church communities is either the new program died or the church split. There was simply too much momentum within the existing community structures for change to occur that was meaningful.
I don’t look at this as a good/bad thing, but simply as the laws of human interaction. I came to the realization that I was simply banging my head on the wall. This was one of the early realizations I had that began my move away from church. It placed me in contact with people who were much more honest with life and each other. And I learned that there were great possibilities that really only existed outside of the church structure.
The last church where I was the pastor I endeavored to nurture just that kind of diverse community Servantgirl. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn’t. What finally drove me out was the demand by the vocal for me to finally state my position and to take a stand on certain issues. At the same time there was this curious appreciation for the freedom a diverse community offers. The vocal wanted it packaged and marketed. So there was this weird thing going on that they loved the authenticity of the community, but wanted me to nail it down with statements, etc., that would have killed it immediately. That’s what finally made me leave.
Hmm, guys I was afraid of that. Richard I’m noticing a trend of people leaving their church to form smaller home based groups. The problem is over time there seems to be a call for order/structure that kills the open process they were building. Since not even building a new thing is enough to keep the division at bay, fixing what’s currently in play seems more hopeless every day.
“Wishy-washy” is what church people have called me when they learn I am open to communing with people of all faiths/lifestyles. By default, being a member of a church means you hold to and agree with the standards/doctrines/values of that group and therefore can’t truly commune with anyone who doesn’t stand for and agree with all of the above. I think about this a lot. I have noticed that religion provides “solid” answers for questions that everyone has at one time or another. If the format was like it is here..people asking questions that maybe nobody has a real answer for, then it would cease to be a church. Unfortunately, I don’t think it’s possible to have both dynamics in one place. Going to church and having open minded conversation/community is like trying to go swimming without getting wet. IMHO
“Going to church and having open minded conversation/community is like trying to go swimming without getting wet.” So true, Moxie. So very true.
AnonymousSorry servantgirl, I agree with Moxie and the others. I don’t think it is possible for a church to embrace a diversity of spiritual beliefs and opinions. That’s why all of us left the church – it is too rigid, forces unrealistic expectations/demands on people, is codependent to the max, and it HAS to maintain a uniform, controlled belief system in order to ensure its own survival.
When I first read Frank Viola’s books on New Testament style “home churches” I was very excited and certain that was exactly what I was looking for. But I never did find one. And now I think even if I had, people being people, sooner or later there would have been a demand for some type of structure, and people would probably end up fighting for control. So I’m glad I didn’t find one.
Besides, if David tried to have diversity in his church and still ended up getting canned, I doubt anyone else would be successful at it!
I think when you try and codify the growth process you end up excluding people. It’s like if I was pointing to the moon and everybody was arguing about my finger. Just look at the fricken moon!! LOL
It’s like if I was pointing to the moon and everybody was arguing about my finger. Just look at the fricken moon!! LOL
LOL! I like that Richard!
Hey Jo White, I’m sorry it wasn’t clear that this was a bit of wishful thinking on my part. I know of no long lasting attempt at diversity and openness that lives in any church. I know of it living within individual members, but as a whole, no way.
The church has such a major influence on aspects of my life not related to religion. The lack of cohesion that exists within individual churches, denominations, and the church in general, makes the Judeo-Christian rules that run my life extremely insulting. My life is governed by people who can’t even get it together amongst themselves. I just wanted to see if you guys knew of a means of accomplishing this without totally tearing down and rebuilding the church as we know it. I’ve yet to come up with any ideas on my own. I’m actually all for the tearing down part, but not so big on the rebuilding. Too many people allow theology to get in the way of reality and the foundations get poisoned with their interpretation of scripture. If the foundations are crappy, the whole thing will eventually start to break down…again.
LOL Richard, I know. Yesterday a non-theist friend posted an Einstein quote on his facebook page. Someone chimed in that Einstein wasn’t an atheist. I watched this exchange between them play out for a while before I finally jumped in. They were both missing the point. A person’s faith or lack of faith does not take away from the validity of their statement. Each sides desire to claim great minds does nothing to add to the debate. If we must disagree, there are many real issues out there to tackle. Too busy looking at the finger and not at the moon.
Anonymousservantgirl – guess I fell back into being a “literalist” – ha!
I’m with everyone else servant girl. It would be wonderful to embrace diversity –
Jo – love this quote… “That’s why all of us left the church – it is too rigid, forces unrealistic expectations/demands on people, is codependent to the max, and it HAS to maintain a uniform, controlled belief system in order to ensure its own survival.” Amen – I’ve been saying how co-dependent the whole church system is for a while now – and I figured it out in a church group on co-dependence… ha ha. But they couldn’t see how it translated into the church.
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