The Portrayal of Women in the TLS Public Intro Video

[Tim WBParticipant]

I really not sure if I have the appropriate language to ask this question. And I’m concerned that it is both important, but also potentially controversial, and easy to express badly.

So with those provisos, here goes:

What do you think about the portrayal of women in the public video introduction to The Lasting Supper?

It’s at http://www.thelastingsupper.com/video

The women that I noticed are doing yoga in swimwear, (tastefully) naked in the bath, and driving a car.

The man I noticed is wearing jeans and a t-shirt.

There are also crowds of many genders, and many non-gender specific people (or people for whom I can’t discern or quickly label their gender).

My first question is: is my perception accurate?

I could be more sensitive than usual to the way women are portrayed in visual images, as I’ve been reading blogs about sexism, and particularly science fiction/fantasy book covers. (See below).

 

I’m also a science fiction and fantasy reader, and I’ve been following blogs (posts) such as:

Jim C. Hines’ Cover Posing (a visual critique of sexism in SF/F covers)

John Scalzi’s Straight White Male: The Lowest Difficulty Setting There Is (about male privilege) et al

Rachel Held Evans’ A Woman’s Voice (about assumptions people make when a woman speaks) et al

I am, even now, newly embarrassed to realise that two male bloggers came straight to mind, and I had to think or search for any others.

I had thought of myself as a feminist. But I have been really unaware of my own privilege, and I’m not used to thinking or talking about it. But it’s there.

 

My second question is: Is the portrayal of women in the TLS intro video um, sexist, I guess?

I don’t want my first act on the site to be criticism, but I couldn’t help noticing, and I felt it was important.

And I’ve seen a lot of David’s cartoons on the naked pastor, and I didn’t see anything like this, except when people’s gender perceptions were being specifically satirised. So (assuming that David drew the cartoons in the intro video) this isn’t intended to be a personal attack on him. But I can sometimes be obnoxious, without noticing it at the time.

So my (third) question is: How did I go with expressing my thoughts appropriately?

• This topic was modified 1 year, 5 months ago by  Tim WB. Reason: Fix links
• This topic was modified 1 year, 5 months ago by  Tim WB. Reason: Clarify what I sometimes miss

[Anonymous]

Hmm, I hadn’t thought about that, but I’ve only been reading feminist blogs for less than a year, so even though I am much more aware of these things now, I can still be pretty tone-deaf sometimes. Just the other day, I used a cliche in a lighthearted manner because it seemed like a quick and effective way to get my point across, and then someone politely informed me how misogynistic the phrase is, and I was horrified because I had never thought about it that way before. Even though many people do it intentionally, I think people often don’t realize when they are communicating in a sexist manner because it is so pervasive in the world, so we need to speak up to each other. It’s also good to be diplomatic on the first and second tries because people are more likely to listen, but it’s hard to speak calmly about things we feel strongly about.

I think you did a great job being diplomatic, it’s always great to see a male feminist, and I think that the video would be better if the woman doing yoga was wearing a tank top and shorts or yoga pants, but I’d like to hear other people’s perspectives too. There isn’t anything wrong with bikinis, but I don’t think that it fits in this context. Fundamentalists and feminists have been discussing bikinis and the damaging effects of purity/modesty culture in the blogsphere lately, so I also don’t want to sound like the modesty police. I don’t think many women actually wear bikinis to do yoga unless they’re at the beach, but I could be wrong. Side note: I googled this to see if there were statistics, and apparently some men and women do yoga naked. Ha-ha.

[Tim WBParticipant]

I’ve been invited to do Yoga recently. Bikram Yoga (the one in a hot room). I was told “Some people just wear underwear”, and I replied that I’d be in shorts and a singlet.

[Anonymous]

Way to call it, Tim! lol. If it had been a man in a bikini maybe it would have been less sexist. Gals in bikini’s are really tough to deal with these days for lots of people.  The media has given us all a pavlovian response to bikini bodies.  I saw a wonderfully balancing image the other day of four, four-hundred pound beauties in bikinis.  We need to see more balance in the bikini world of media for sure. We have to try to help people navigate corporate media in this world. Discussions like this do help. imho.

[David HaywardKeymaster]

Hey @twilsonb (tim)… thanks for your post. I did all the cartoons. And as you’ve observed, most of my cartoons with women are not like that. I searched hard to find cartoons that fit the story-line of the video. Those were the ones that made the cut. It was not intentional. But you know my cartoons well enough it seems to know where my heart is. Also… if you’ve seen my Sophia series, she’s nude in almost all of them. I tried clothing her at first, but many women, including my wife and daughter, insisted that she remain nude. It more powerfully portrayed her journey.

[Tim WBParticipant]

@admin (David), I haven’t seen your Sophia series – what’s the link?

 

And yes, I’d seen enough of your cartoons to realise where you’re coming from; and that a single series wasn’t representative of your entire work or attitude.

 

But one of the reasons I asked this question about the intro video, is that it’s one of the first things people see when they’re deciding if they’ll join The Lasting Supper.

I’d hate someone to get turned off by the cartoons and decide not to join, particularly given the conversation that’s running hot in some of the corners of the Internet I frequent.

 

So what’s your take on an outsider having this kind of knee-jerk reaction? (I know you deal well with these by personal experience!)

Personally, I’d expect them to go beyond a single video before making sweeping generalisations – but how many people actually do this on the Internet?

[David HaywardKeymaster]

Here’s the best place to see all my Sophia drawings: https://www.etsy.com/shop/nakedpastor?section_id=10031313

[AmyParticipant]

Hi, @Tim! I had to come see what you wrote because I’m a feminist blogger (with sorta Christian leanings, I suppose).   I just had to say that the fact that you’re asking those questions made my day.  I understand where you’re coming from, and I can see why you might have had that reaction.  When I was new to feminism–and coming out of rigid evangelicalism, which is full of sexism–I noticed all sorts of things I didn’t see before.

Personally, I don’t find the particular cartoons sexist.  I’m not honestly sure what would be sexist about driving a car, but I can understand the concern with the other ones.  I like the car one, because of the message of it–that she’s free to go, free to choose her own route.  That’s actually very feminist.  The yoga one doesn’t bother me, either–I like that she’s in her bathing suit(?), because I see it as her specifically NOT being sexualized, but that she’s free from the constraints the church places on her, including her body.  I can see why someone would be bothered by the naked tub one, although I personally am not because again, it’s not a sexualized pose.  Um, and also, she’s flipping the bird, LOL.  I suppose others may have a different feeling, but I again, I see it as empowering because we’re told so often that our bodies don’t belong to us or that they are “stumbling blocks” for men.  There is freedom for women in being naked, and obviously so, without the pressure of doing it for the male gaze, while simultaneously giving the finger to the religious community that wants to keep her down.

In my opinion, and from what I’ve seen for the length of time I’ve been following David’s cartoons, is that he’s excellent at capturing some of those subtle messages and turning them on their ear.  One of my favorites is the one that everyone said looked like an owl…only it wasn’t, LOL.  @David, do you have a link for that one?

Anyway, welcome, Tim, and I hope to engage in future conversation with you about feminism!

[Tim WBParticipant]

Hey @Amy, yes, I’ve seen the “owl”, and it look me a few seconds to work out what it really was.

And then I had several different reactions in quick succession, and watched myself having those reactions – which, I guess, was part of David’s (@admin) motivation for the “owl” cartoon.

I guess I was asking questions about balance and proportion and context, and you and David have explained the context quite well in your posts.

I see nothing objectionable about (a cartoon of) a woman driving, in the bath, or in a bikini in a yoga pose – and I certainly wasn’t trying to label any of these as “wrong”.

(Personally, I’m a little over labels – they often give the illusion of good communication, while hiding the genuine similarities and differences in the conversation.)

 

Thanks for engaging with my questions.

[AmyParticipant]

@Tim I really enjoy these kinds of discussions (mainly because I can’t have them in most of my circles!).  I’m glad you asked the questions.   Like I said, the fact that you’re willing to go there says volumes about the fact that you’re thinking about these things.  It’s pretty cool.

[Author]

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