Who heals? God or the Church?

[CrystiParticipant]

Hi there TLS peeps! Sorry I rarely post, but I just rejoined Facebook under a pseudonym Bobbie Ann so I could participate on my phone easier. I would love to write my long church story out tonight, but I am typing in my son’s room on the computer and he just came to bed. So, now I need to go, as I wrote in the FB group, my former pastor’s father-in-law just told me last week that we needed to find our way back to the church because I owed them for healing!!! I am so mad I could spit. For a variety of reasons. Hopefully I will be able to get on here in the day tomorrow and tell more. But here is a video of me at the Bay of the Holy Spirit revival. This really did happen. At the time my pastor (Lindell Cooley) wasn’t even going to participate in this version of the revival (he was a huge part of the Brownsville revival in my hometown roughly 20 years ago when I was in college and now pastors a church where I live now). Anyway, I did get healed. It was at the revival. An atheist Aunt was telling me it could have just been something finally unlocking in my mind. I hated her for saying that at the time because I thought I finally had the key to saving her (we have been having arguments for 20 years about it- well debates, we are very close actually). Anyway, now I believe her somewhat, though I am probably more agnostic than atheist. But I can’t tell her because I can’t have that side of the family know where I am spiritually yet. Hmmm. Anyway. Back to this trigger-

1) why in the world would he say that???? I knew back then we said it was all about God while chasing these men with healing powers to revivals. But for him to outright say it?? I don’t know why it makes me so mad. but it does!!!

2) And, I have wanted to ask for a long time on here, what do I do with the fact that I did have a “miracle” but don’t really believe in evangelicalism at all anymore?. That feels awful. I haven’t asked because I have kept my mouth so shut about everything I have seen from the inside of the inner circle (after I testified suddenly the pastor’s wife became my friend and from there is was a huge downhill slide when I couldn’t reconcile everything they preached on Sunday- at my home church in TN, not revival) with how they treated people, mocked them, superiority, neurotic tendencies, total abuse of money, etc. outside of church. crazy and long story.  But now, I have shown you this video, and am ready to at least talk  a bit. Thanks for this place. We didn’t have as hard of a time leaving as those from Mars Hill, but we have been definitely encouraged not to talk about anything and talked about badly.

• This topic was modified 1 year, 4 months ago by  David Hayward.

[CrystiParticipant]

Oh, and on this healing note- I cannot tell you how much I hate faith healing talk now. Although I did it to myself by testifying, suddenly the entire church knew about my health situation and the ladies prayer group encouraged me to even cancel other surgery on an area that He didn’t heal because I should just have faith. I listened and hate that I did. I finally had that other surgery a few months ago and have more to go. The bladder still works though- haha (watch the video linked above if you don’t get that statement). But I hate that in the wake of my healing that I also encouraged people to have faith. But so many people died at church and other places after I got healed, I knew it had nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing to do with getting to a revival or having enough faith or whatever. i can’t explain it and feel crazy sometimes, but I hate faith healing talk completely now. Bleh. Sorry to the universe for pressuring anyone in that direction.

[David HaywardKeymaster]

OMG @crystalc2012 that’s you??? I’ve seen that before! I’m totally familiar with all of that. Totally. Our church was in the middle of all that stuff. And the language and manipulation used… totally familiar with it from both sides. Thanks for sharing this. Wow!

[starfielderParticipant]

Crystal, thanks for sharing your experience and the video. Wow! That is quite an experience. Like you I believe in miracles but all the hoopla really turns me off. I have no idea why people are healed or how they are healed for that matter. I’m glad you’re here on TLS! Welcome! I want to hear more…

[CrystiParticipant]

Yep, that’s me. Really bad hair day and all! I will post more but will write it out more coherently next time!

[Anonymous]

I have had emotional healing from Christ.  Healing fr. the church – not so much.

[Anonymous]

I am really really skeptical of these “Faith healers.”

[starfielderParticipant]

I don’t know but what you wrote was coherent. Great read!

[Anonymous]

Ouch! Good for you for thinking past the magic. I too believe that our bodies can heal in ways that seem magic, but to turn that into a revival is just so rangy. I can’t stand churchianity, especially faith healing revivalanity. This triggers and angry response in me too.

[CrystiParticipant]

I have always been very skeptical about faith healers too, even while I was at Regent U. (Home to Pat the Rat Robertson that loves to blame tragedy on God). but based on my very emotional “encounters with God” at Brownsville at 18, I trusted this particular group. I believed it all 100%. I beat myself up a lot for being so gullible. And I did have a major change in my health. but when I am being nice to myself, I remember how sick, on morphine, etc. I was. And how powerful the worship music/chants were. I had been bedridden for nearly 3 years.  I was very vulnerable to manipulation. My ex-pastor once said they were criticized for just hypnotizing people, and his response was that even if that was true, why wasn’t there more of it?! And before I got sick, my husband and I had recently reconciled so ALL of our friends were in this church. I have always been very spiritual though practically unchurched so this revival mountaintop stuff was all I craved. there are so many things that led to me not believing. It was first, other people dying – that we were praying for. And when I asked for guidance with “survivors guilt”, only answer was “God’s ways are not our ways”. You mean to tell me you are running a multi-million dollar healing enterprise and NOBODY is even thinking about how to counsel the healed/not healed/families???? That started it. and I am a 100% believer or 0% kind of person. I do not want to totally call these people evil because people do get great comfort from faith when facing great illness. But they are 100% about the money and the celebrity status they bestow on each other, not about the sheep.  So much control. I am babbling. Any advice on any of this?

[starfielderParticipant]

Since each of us has our own path, my advice might do nothing for you. I can share things I think about…My wonderings are like yours such as, what about the ones that aren’t healed? What about the survivors guilt? It was my Dad’s sudden horrible, tortured, death that caused my faith to change. We prayed for healing. He prayed for healing. I had never seen suffering like that. I had never accompanied someone as their prayers went unanswered and they were in pain and dying and there was nothing to do but speak kind words and stay with him until his last breath. All the things we prayed for did not happen. Not one of them. It was tragic and horrifying and took me an entire year to see joy in anything again. And when joy came back it came back like a quiet little fragile bud. It was hardly noticeable. But then one day I looked around and realized that I had lived through my worst fear and I was going to live my life.

So, all the prayer warriors and prayer services and hoopla and singing. I have been there. I have done that. And the folks who still participate in it, I think they really do believe in it and get caught up in it…. the music, the prophetic words, it’s like a drug.

But I’m not there anymore. I have a peace and rhythm to my life now that has been hard one. It was very difficult to leave all of that church family, faith, belief, hope, and certainty.

My challenge as of late has been to let go of bitterness and to choose a path of forgiveness and openness and to keep on moving on.

[CrystiParticipant]

I am so so so sorry to hear about your dad. I actually left my faith after my dad died too but just out of anger, never thought about it. So came back with a bunch of guilt and more religion than ever.

I am past all of this a lot of the time. I am just experiencing a trigger at the moment. I wish we were completely disconnected from everyone. But my husband is handy with fixing things so he still gets used a lot and then I hear the latest stories. He gets roped in through a friend of his that works for the pastor. So he says he says yes to help the friend not the pastor.

[Anonymous]

Crystal -First of all, thanks for being brave enough to share that video and your current  doubts, turmoil and unanswered questions. I am pretty much in the same boat on that, so I don’t have any answers  – but I understand the turmoil, confusion, and even guilt that comes with trying to figure out what is really going on when people are healed and why some are and others aren’t. In the Gospels it says over and over that Jesus went around healing ALL who were sick. I don’t think they even had to ask him for healing. All they had to do was be in the same vicinity as Jesus. (Unless that is metaphor rather than literal healing.)

This story may be a re-run for some of you old timers, but  want to share it again for the sake of the new people…

I went to a Be in Health Conference a few years ago in Georgia  because I was hoping to receive healing for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. The conference is based on Dr. Henry Wright ‘s teachings and his book A More Excellent Way. Basically, he claimed to have figured out what the spiritual/emotional roots of various conditions and illnesses were (such as fear, anxiety, feeling unloved, unforgiveness, bitterness etc.) I was there a week and listened to all kinds of talks and went through many prayer sessions to heal the “root cause” of CFS (I can’t even remember now what he said it was.) I also have allergies which can cause occasional asthma. I had to stop eating sunflower seeds because they made me have asthma. (According to Dr. Wright, fear is the root cause of asthma. )

Now, like you, I have no explanation for what did and what didn’t happen to me as a result of that conference. And I am NOT recommending anyone go there!!! It is a waste of time and money! What did happen was I was convinced I had dealt with all my fear issues by the end of the week, so I ate sunflower seeds all the way home on the plane and had NO asthma (I can still eat sunflower seeds to this day with no asthma.)  I can’t explain that one! May have just been the power of positive thinking.

Over the next 5 or 6 months, my CFS was improving to the point that I thought I might even be able to work part time, but as time went on, doing constant spiritual warfare was draining, time-consuming, and burdensome. (To me, having to work that hard to stay healed was NOT living an abundant life!) I would go on the message boards on the Be in Health website and people would ask about innocuous things they did or read or saw, and they were completely paranoid that they had given Satan an inroad back into their life and they feared they might lose their healing. And that just turned me totally off. When Jesus healed people, I don’t recall him telling them anything about what they would need to do to “keep their healing?” They were simply healed on the spot!

Basically we were told to do spiritual warfare constantly in order to not lose our healing. (That is SO lame cuz then if you lose your healing it’s YOUR fault! I HATE that!)I finally came to a point where I  recognized how legalistic the Be in Health teachings were so I just stopped following them.  The improvement in my CFS slowly faded back to where it had been before the conference. (But I cycle in and out of periods of time where I feel better, have more energy and am more productive anyway.)

When I think back on that whole thing, it’s hard not to have contempt for being able to eat sunflower seeds and not have asthma. Seriously God?  I went there to have my CFS healed and you decide to heal an allergy to sunflower seeds? SERIOUSLY GOD???? What kind of cruel joke is that? I can live without sunflower seeds!  I honestly don’t think Jesus went around giving people minor healing when what they asked him for was healing of major diseases that robbed them of the ability to live and enjoy life without physical limitations.

I used to wonder if maybe Satan was the one doing the “healing.” But I don’t even know if I believe in the existence of Satan anymore, and if he does exist, how could a purely evil entity do anything that was even remotely good like healing people to ANY degree? The whole thing still boggles my mind. I honestly just think the mind is a powerful thing and when there is enough emotional hype some people can convince themselves in the moment that they really have been healed.

I totally agree with you about the faith healers  on TBN – they are nothing but sadistic charlatans who only care about one thing – lining their own pockets and living life styles of the rich and famous. That is polar opposite to the kind of life Jesus led on earth. He didn’t go around bilking people out of money and he sure didn’t go around amassing a fortune for himself so he could live in style. He was a simple, poor,  common carpenter. That tells me there is SOMETHING VERY WRONG with this whole healing business. Even if I can’t pinpoint what is exactly going on, there is nothing wrong with my sense of smell and I smell something very rotten! To raise a person’s hopes that they will be healed and then for it not to happen is very cruel and very damaging to a sick person. They have enough problems without someone raising their hopes only to be disappointed…AGAIN.

As Forrest Gump says: “That’s all I have to say about that!” (So I’ll shut up now.)

[CrystiParticipant]

Hi Jo- finally at a computer again! i totally relate to the “Seriously God???” thoughts- the first time I felt something supernatural it was my toes (that side is numb). I had so much trouble at that point, I couldn’t figure out about the toes!!! Again, there was more legalism and such added to it— it just makes no sense.

[Author]

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