WHY PRIESTS – Garry Wills

[starfielderParticipant]

So, one of my favorite quotes is by John Cusack and he attributes it to Garry Wills, “Who are your heroes in real life?

Let’s go with Jesus. Not the gay-hating, war-making political tool of the right, but the outcast, subversive, supreme adept who preferred the freaks and lepers and despised and doomed to the rich and powerful. The man Garry Wills describes “with the future in his eyes … paradoxically calming and provoking,” and whom Flannery O’Connor saw as “the ragged figure who moves from tree to tree in the back of [one’s] mind.”

So, Garry Wills was on the Colbert Report with a new book titled, “Why Priests.? Here is the New York Times write up about it:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/13/opinion/new-pope-ive-given-up-hope.html?hp&_r=1&

Here is the link to The Colbert Report with Gary Wills: http://www.hulu.com/watch/455695

Any one want to read this book with me?

• This topic was modified 1 year, 9 months ago by  starfielder.

[moxierocksParticipant]

If I can find a way to get a copy, I will!

[Huddo71Participant]

Thanks for this Star (I hope you don’t mind me calling you Star).  Being the husband of a non practicing Catholic and 2 kids at Catholic Schools I tend to brush up against a lot of the issues there.  I was surprised to pick up in that article that it was a papal decree in 1870 that stated that papal decrees were infallible.  The very idea of that is huge and fraught with problems – kind of like the changing of the wafer into the ‘body’ – we know its not scientifically viable because if we scientifically tested it we would have to face the reality.  The cognitive dissonance required to engage in this kind of belief increases more and more with every new decree.  It really is peculiar to observe from outside.  But it makes me vigilant to expose my own belief.  What sort of crazy stuff do I still believe that still requires a cognitive dissonance of my own?

[starfielderParticipant]

Hi Huddo! Eh I answer to many names so Star is fine. Moxie and I are going to read this book together and discuss it. There are a lot of things I like about the catholic church and there is a boat load that I don’t. Welcome to the journey of “What sort of crazy stuff do I still believe that still requires a cognitive dissonance of my own?” 

keep us posted k?!

[VinnyParticipant]

I’m up for it, as a former catholic with a pretty good working knowledge of the hierarchy, dogma, terminology, etc.  The book is at the Chicago Public Library, so I can probably get my hands on it pretty easily.

[starfielderParticipant]

started reading…

[moxierocksParticipant]

Alright. So, I have made it through the first 3 chapters. Woah, this is some tough stuff to read about! I honestly had no idea there was really so many strange contortionist-type mental gymnastics being done…The whole eucharist and Host concept was always very strange to me, but reading more in depth about it is making me feel a wee bit crazy. Bottom line, they have made up a whole bunch of stuff that they couldn’t back up with the bible if they tried! The specialness of the priests and the almost godlike reverence for the Pope… I just can’t help feeling like it’s such a SHAME that so many people are so very much deceived into honoring and revering mere men. (I know that’s not just limited to the Catholic church) Ugh! And the end of the third chapter goes into some detail about gruesome murders of people who tried to disprove their claims of the body and blood being actually present in the Host. The relics (supposedly from Jesus himself) The bleeding statues..the clothing of the Pope..it’s all just so..ugh.

[starfielderParticipant]

Ok @Huddo71 and @Vinny where are you and why haven’t you weighed in on this?

[starfielderParticipant]

I hear you Moxie. It’s a lot to take in. A few years ago I went to Italy with my cousins. They lived there and speak italian. That being said, we stayed in Orvieto where the particular relic of the blood has a whole cathedral in it’s honor. We also ended up over in Lake Bolsena and saw where the “miracle” happened. So weird that I have been there and here it is talked about in a book. The relic looked like a rust stain.

So far these are the things that are sticking with me:

1. “One of the deep urges to deny the reality of sexual abuse by priests is probably the fact that pious people thought it inconceivable that the “consecrating fingers,” those which touched the Host, could also stroke a woman’s clitoris or a young boy’s penis. Johan Chrysostom (c. 347-407 CE) wrote: “How God shows his love for man. He who sits on high beside the Father is held in all priests’ hands!” Francis of Assisi said that this cradling of Christ in his hands made the priest resemble Mary his mother, who bore him in her womb and nursed him at her breast. In the twelfth century, Saint Norbert, the founder of the Premonstratensian order of priests, wrote of the priest’s re-enactment of the Incarnation, “Priest’s you are not, because you are God.”      page 24 Loc 241

2. “How can men so cosseted, set so on high, deferred to so universally, not think of themselves as exceptional beings? The keeper  of a higher order of knowledge can come to believe, gradually, that he is a higher order of being. An awe for priests was instilled…” page 30 Loc 518

3. “Of course I have known humble and hardworking priests, men who shamed me by their devotion to others. But there are enough of the other kind to make one appreciate the words of Jesus when he told his Followers not to strive for pre-eminence (Mk 9.33-37) Or when he sent his disciples out to preach the Gospel, saying, “Provide yourselves no gold or silver or copper in your belsts, or traveler’s pouch, or second pair of tunics or sandals. (Mt 10.9-10. Saint Peter’s Basilica and the Vatican Palace cannot claim true descent from that pair of sandals and that single tunic.”  page 32 Loc 550

4. Perhaps the most famous story is “the miracle of Bolsena.”  In 1263, it is claimed, a priest in Bolsena, Italy, who did not believe in the real presence, broke the large Host held in his hands and the sacred blood ran down onto the corporal (the white linen cloth on which the paten and chalice are placed during Mass). The stained corporal became a prized relic and was installed in a special monstrance at a special altar in the nearby Orvieto cathedral, where it has been worshiped by pilgrims ever since…” page 35 Loc 611

[starfielderParticipant]

on to the next chapters….

[Anonymous]

I never could understand how priests were supposed to counsel people on marriage and family life when they aren’t allowed to marry or have children of their own????

[starfielderParticipant]

Me either Jo and so I’m reading this book….

[VinnyParticipant]

Ok @Huddo71 and @Vinny where are you and why haven’t you weighed in on this?

 

Sorry, still waiting for the book on the reserve list at the library…

[VinnyParticipant]

Finally got it off reserve at the library!  We’re taking a brief vaca this week so hopefully I can catch up!

[starfielderParticipant]

Yay Vinny!

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