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David Hayward 1 year, 6 months ago.
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Seems like I should introduce myself. I have been an Anglican for pretty well the last 30 years, with a variety of others before that. I was a licenced Reader in the church, and have a theology degree. I tried for ordination but was rejected.
Last year, having failed at a third church to be accepted as a reader, I decided I had had enough of church f*cking me up, and so left. I occasionally attend a FIEC church, locally, but do no more than turn up on some Sundays.
One of the final straws was a website I set up, for resources and support of people who were de-churched, Bored With Church. Apparently my vicar didn’t like it. I also blog on pretty much anything that comes into my mind.
I am English, and work as a software developer. Spare time I study for a PhD and write SF stories.
AnonymousWelcome!
Hey welcome! Your story sounds fascinating!! I want to hear more.
Yes…I too want to welcome you. And also look forward to hearing more about your journey.
Anything particular you want to hear about?
I suppose I suffered from having too much knowledge to be happy in a church, because I understand the problems, the issues, and I am prepared to ask the difficult questions. Including “why do we bother with church at all?” A lot of people – clergy included – get scared at asking these questions, because the answers might be “there is none, lets stop”.
At the same time, I believe that my insights and challenges are crucial to the future of the church. Being prepared to ask these questions and work through to get the answers is the best hope for finding a way forward. I do believe that the church is doomed in its current state, because of a) all of the subjects that David raises in his blog b) the insane ability of the church in the UK to shoot itself in the foot at any possible opportunity and most significantly c) the postmodernist paradigm that is (like it or not) the predominant way of viewing the world, and so much of the church retains its modernist perspective, which is explicitly rejected.
I would still describe myself as an evangelical and a Christian. I definitely believe that Christians should be evangelising, but that means engaging with others, not telling them. It means listening, and exploring with people and letting them know that Christianity may have something to say to them, because it does have a real place to help peoples spiritual journey.
The Church, OTOH, seeks to demonstrate its irrelevance. That pisses me off.
I have, of late, found a problem with not being involved in a church that I have no place to explore these challenging sorts of questions any more. I would love to meet with people to do this, but it seems that I am alone in my area. So I am trying to see if TLS can provide some of this.
Incidentally, I am also active on the Ship of Fools discussion boards, which are often useful for getting a Christian perspective on matters, but I still need something more.
Thanks @Schroedingers-Cat… could you share why you were “rejected” for ordination? if it’s too personal no worries. i did it the other way around. i got ordained and then rejected
Welcome from one Brit to another (I’m in Brighton). We both have Anglican backgrounds – I was treasurer of a Parish in the 1960s for 8 years but became disillusioned in the early 1970’s. I’m another one of those people who are always asking questions – and I started programming computers over 45 years ago.
There is a lot wrong with the Anglican Church – and I’ve been convinced for many years that there is no real chance of changing it from within.
I noticed that you described yourself as evangelical. I came to the conclusion several years ago that I’m not an evangelical. It might be worth exploring what you mean by that because many in the States think of Evangelical as being the same as Fundamentalist.
I’ve been looking at your blog – mine is ‘Outside The Goldfish Bowl’.
old-pete Yes I realise that some people misunderstand evangelical, but I refuse to let it go to those who abuse the term. It defines the way I approach and see my faith, treating the bible as the only definitive source of truth. Which is not to deny that we need to understand and interpret it, to explore HOW it is relevant and appropriate. But starting from the assumption that it is accurate and authoritative, and to dismiss it because it is difficult is to do violence to the faith.
However, just to clarify, that does not mean that either I expect everyone else to agree with me on their own definition of faith; or that I would accept or even recognise the more extreme US understandings of Biblical Evangelical Fundamentalism.
The truth is that I find this definition is helpful in understanding where I start from in my interpretation. Having said that, I find far more in common with others who are open and accepting in their interpretation of faith, and want to explore than I do with people who might share my tag as an evangelical but who are far more right-wing and fundamentalist approach. It is critical to my faith that the bible teaches – fundamentally and essentially – acceptance and embrace of others.
David – I went through the Anglican process for ordination, and made it to a selection conference, which is the core part of the process. That conference said no, as happens sometimes. The church has a tendency to put people through the mill in the process, but then actually just ignores them from that point. Why was I rejected? I didn’t fit, I guess. I was not someone who would do as I was told or make the CofE look good.
I still believe that I would have made a good vicar, and learnt much of what I have anyway, but found a place that I could help make the church more relevant and appropriate. Of course, I might be wrong – we cannot know.
It is a critical issue with the CofE, I believe, that the people in power – in all senses – are all clergy. This means that challenges to clergy or the church systems and structure are unlikely to be heard.
Th
AnonymousThis is a friendly bunch and has quite a range of faith expression, even to the extent of agno/atheist. It’s non-confrontational. We share our stories, struggles and swerving beliefs. I’d say it’s a safe place to be honest. Having said that, and having listened to your story, I’d say we have a lot in common (outside the box thinkers) but to be honest I should say that your statement, “…the bible as the only definitive source of truth…accurate and authoritative…”, raised the small hairs for me. That’s exactly where my struggle with all things Christian began. The Bible still holds an important place in my life, as a very special collection of Judeo-Christian lore, but I can no longer point to it and make the claims you do.
I’m not saying this to be in your face, rather I’m being honest, direct, and I hope gracious.
Welcome to the lasting supper where there’s always something to eat.
By the way @Schroedingers-Cat, what would make this site awesome for you? What do you hope to find here?
AnonymousWelcome @Schoedingers-Cat
Do you mind explaining what a Reader is exactly as it pertains to Anglicanism…in the Deep South Anglicans don’t exist so it’s a new term for me.
AnonymousThe Episcopal Church, also known as the Protestant Episcopal Church in the United States of America, is a mainline Anglican Christian denomination.
Wayne-Rumsby – well I was simply outlining my position. I fully accept that others don’t hold this, and find their faith from a different perspective. I think that makes the difference. It is where I am, not where I expect others to be.
You might not like it – I can accept that some people holding similar views are obnoxious assholes. But it is critical for me that I can stand on what I believe, on what I understand. I am not throwing this in anyones face, but I am sick of being told what I should believe, and what I am not allowed to believe. This is what I believe, that is all.
What would make it awesome? Finding people I can discuss faith as it impacts my reality – and other peoples reality – not just in theoretical terms. Finding people who I can be honest with.
A reader in the CofE is a person who is licensed to preach and lead services. It is unpaid, they are not ordained, and are subject to the vicar in the parish.
Their role is often debated. it does vary from parish to parish.
See what happens when I don’t check in for a couple of days? I missed @Schroedingers-Cat joining us. *waves hello*
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