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Helene 1 year, 5 months ago.
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I love bringing topics that I’m pondering to TLSerers. I have been attending an academic sorcery and witchcraft conference that relates to recent killings in the Pacific. Some of it is detailed here http://www.theglobalmail.org/feature/its-2013-and-theyre-burning-witches/558/ warning – this is not meant to be read before going to bed and the words and pictures can have a deep impact. It’s pretty fucked up, and though this has taken place in the past, there are some contemporary links with Christian missionization, and others such as community destruction and growth nearby of export mineral industries etc. Also, they have been able to effectively combine their sorcery practices and Christianity together. It’s a huge topic as you can guess. One example given was the need to teach that Jesus didn’t ever kill witches – ie the need to get a bit more educated on what the bible really says (for those who are making their own interpretations)
Anyhow, a comment relating to this by a Pacific Islander who has left this way of life was interesting, “I believe in it, but I don’t believe in it”. It made me think of the dual beliefs that we may hold (or multiplicity of them). I realise that Jo recently had a chat on witchcraft stuff, but I’m curious as to those who may have been in ministry, cast out demons as part of that etc, and where you sit with it now. Or those who have had experiences that crossed into the spirit world when you were a Christian. How do you explain or make sense of it now. Do you still think Satan is like a ‘roaring lion’ ?
I appreciate that I’m asking this of those who may still be Christian, as well as those who no longer identify. And just happy for the thread to go sideways and ditch talking about witchcraft and get into the ‘dual beliefs’ stuff which I find the most fascinating, of how we can potentially be in internal tension. Or not? Over to you…
Helene, I don’t have a simple answer anymore. I used to. I used to be able to explain it and make sense of it all. Now days I hear myself say most often, “what was that?” And most often I hear, “it was what it was.” I’m not a joiner anymore. I have had a profound experience with what I would call the christ and it really did change my life. It rescued me from certain peril. But, this being said, my christ is not the christ that most people would imagine. My christ doesn’t care if people know the Bible or go to church or say a prayer or talk about sin etc so on and so forth. Over the past few years I’ve learned to “hold” things I wonder about. I simply notice them. I’m not sure where christ is in all of this but I worry much less about it. I think a lot of the things I “believed” were simply my fear trying to override itself. As for casting out demons, well, I’ve seen it and I’ve seen people healed. Is Satan like a roaring lion? I don’t know. I know evil is a total sly sneaky bastard but not always.
I’m with @starfielder. I have had experiences ‘good’ and ‘bad’ that I cannot explain anymore ~ I used to have them all neatly boxed and tied with bows haha. Not anymore. And who am I to label them anyway. I’m ok with that. I’m finally discovering that life is an intriguing, complex, dynamic place. And its much simpler without preconceived ideas (for me anyway).
Anonymous@Helene, you are talking to an expert in demonology. One who knows the fine intricacies of all that is demonic and dark. One who can readily identify and classify demons of all sorts. There is the Demon of lust, the Demon of debauchery, the Demon of gluttony, the demon of disagreeing with the pastor, the demon of laziness, the demon of sadness, the demon of insert-any-negative-condition-here. All of them were employees of the epitome of evil – Satan himself…
I have personally witnessed the colorful escape of multiple demoni from the ritual burning of over 250 magnetic cassete tapes filled with demonic secular music (including but not limited to AC/DC, Lynyrd Skynyrd, The Beattles, Iron Maiden, and other devil worshippers) .
I have cast multiple demons out of human beings while they lay on their sides and backs heaving and breathing and crying, sighing and gasping. And I could swear I saw those demons out of the corner of my eye in the peripheral struggling to be freed from those bodies as I wielded the mixed language of angels and men at them and some times an open hand.
Of course that was back in the late 80s. These days I think that there is evil, but that it is more of a result of our own human darkness gone mad. If that makes any sense. So yes, but no. I believe evil exists, but I dont believe it has a supernatural origin.
OMG @helene and others… I so relate to that. I grew up in a church that obsessed over the demonic, participated in exorcisms, saw demons everywhere… it was a terrifying time during my teen years. Oh… and the movie “Blair Witch Project” scared the shit out of me.
See, I knew you’d all bring nuance and insight into the topic – thank you. One day I might share how a pastor introduced demonology and spiritual warfare into a church I was once attending. Ouch. @David – ooh yes, the ‘Blair Witch Project’, this was just pre-reality TV and I think there were less brain filters then to sort out what’s real or not, and it certainly felt real ! (I’m saying this based on conversations I had at the time, I never actually watched it). Am about to go away for five weeks, so I’ll check in once I get back and properly respond. If I can find you some Kopi Luwak David, I promise I’ll send some ! ha. Oh, sorry, cancel that – I just checked the price, and the poor civets aren’t in great shape. http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/nov/19/civet-coffee-abuse-campaigners
I will look for an alternative I think !
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