I can't escape the gay issue

[starfielderParticipant]

Before you say “I told you so” I hope you’ll hear me out.

I went to church today. My kids have been hanging out with the presbyterians and most of those kids go to this church. My husband and I haven’t been in a good couple of months. Today, we sat in the back-ish section. I keep thinking I can sit through a service and be ok. But then this happened…

An elder announced that this church, which is a group of 5 presbyterian churches with over 5000 members here in the San Francisco Bay Area, is leaving Presbytery USA. He couched in it niceties. He sounded kind and sincere about fasting and prayerfully discussing and meeting. He spoke of joining up with a different evangelical presbyterian denomination.

“And if you have any questions we’ll have a question and answer so that the elders can hear from the congregation and they’ll take it back to the main campus.”

I felt my throat tighten. A large pit opened in my stomach. I felt my eyes dribble down my face. I wept. Crying because they will leave because they don’t believe that gays can be part of their church. I almost bolted for the door. I sat there wondering. I tried to listen to what was going on inside me.

I’m terribly terribly sad. My heart is broken.

In the middle of the service I texted my sweet sister who happens to be gay. This is what my texts said, “I’m sitting in church. They’re explaining why they are leaving the denomination to be more evangelical. It’s the gays. I feel sick. The gay issue. I can’t stop crying.”  and then I wrote, “I guess I wasn’t expecting that this morning.”

My sister texted back this,

“I left my conscience like a crying child

locked the door behind me put the pain on file

broken like a window

I see my blindness now

I need love

not some sentimental prison

I need god

not the political church

I need fire to melt the frozen sea inside me

I need love”   -SAM PHILLIPS

 

My sister then said she was playing it on her guitar for me right now.

I’m angry. I’m sad. I’m feeling it.

 

 

[AmyParticipant]

((((hugs))))

My first church was a Presby USA church, and that was where I learned that The Gays are responsible for basically everything.  The church I was at the longest was also PCUSA, and in 10 years, I never once heard a sermon about homosexuality.  Never.  Recently, that church considered leaving PCUSA to join another Presbyterian denom–and decided against it.  PCUSA was my first church love, and my heart belongs to them no matter where I attend.

My heart breaks for you that you had to go through that. 

[AgnosticBelieverParticipant]

Oh man, so sorry to hear that. As churches continue this behavior, they will lose more and more people.

[starfielderParticipant]

@AgnosticBeliever and @Amy, thanks. and yup.

[Tim WBParticipant]

@starfielder, I once attended a church which believed that preaching about people in the congregation, on sensitive issues, was insensitive.

I’m so sorry that you went through this kind of insensitivity.

[Schroedingers-CatParticipant]

I left one church which was pro-gay, but whose vicar I could not get on with.

I left another church whose vicar I could mostly get on with, but who were, as a body, anti-gay.

It is a nightmare of an issue in the UK at the moment, and many churches will lose people because they do not accept their churches position on this. Many will I suspect, not find another church.

I do fully understand the position of those who cannot accept gays. I don’t agree, but I can understand. I also know that it is an issue that many evangelicals feel very strongly on, one way or another. So I can understand why your church felt that it had to take a stand.

I just wonder if those who do that realise just how much damage they are causing, by making this their cause celebre.

[starfielderParticipant]

@Steve Clough, it surprised me how “nice” they were about it. There seemed to be no thought as to the emotional impact it would have. I’m not talking about the theology of it. Are they going to leave their denomination because they don’t believe in pack a day smokers? Or god forbid, they don’t believe in being fat? It seemed so unloving and couched in terms of “fasting and praying”  all the while declaring their willingness to “meet and discuss so that elders can hear from the congregation.” I guess it didn’t help that the old rich white guy who isn’t even part of the local congregation stood there smiling making the announcement.

All of it was disheartening and off putting.

[starfielderParticipant]

Here is the phrase from the denomination ECO: The Covenant Order of Evangelical Presbyterians, that gets me “We reject the claim that the life of the mind is independent from faith; we affirm that unless we believe we cannot properly understand either God or the world around us.”

[Off the mapParticipant]

 

“We reject the claim that the life of the mind is independent from faith; we affirm that unless we believe we cannot properly understand either God or the world around us”.

 

I was curious.  I went to the Menlo Park Pres web site and dug around until I found their page on denominational affiliation.  That sent me to the ECO: Covenant Order of Evangelical Presbyterians website.  The quote above comes from their essential tenents.  It is very tidy.  Unless you are one of us, you cannot understand God, the world, or yourself.

I do not know how the arc of this thought will play out.  It is frightening to me, as a person of faith, as a lesbian. It is the kind of tenent needed to justify Jihad. You are not a believer, you cannot understand and you are what WE, who believe, sacrifice to point to our purity.  We can prove our righteousness since we have you, who do not believe correctly, to point to and reject.

Star – I can’t escape the gay issue either – though I spent a long time trying to.  I do know that people change. I know that eyes and ears can be opened so that we truly seek to serve the “Jesus” in every other.  This denomination will not go this route since they have the lockdown on  who, what, where, when and how, GodJesusHolySpirit  is and will be.   I like what I have heard you say elsewhere, “perfect fear casts out love”.   I imagine all these elders convincing themselves that they are not afraid and therefore, are still loving.

For myself – I’d like to go out in joy and be led forth in peace so I can hear those mountains and hills break forth with rejoicing.   And I’d like to walk that path with anyone who wants to be there.

[starfielderParticipant]

I hear you @Off the map. I walk this journey with you.

 

[Anonymous]

Star – So sorry you were wounded once again by the church! Unfortunately, that seems to be its specialty.

I remember when divorce was the big controversial issue the Evangelical church refused to “condone” or accept. And how a divorced person no longer qualified for leadership positions – or any position really – in the church.  Over the years, as more and more Christians experienced divorce, the church finally became accepting of divorce and began to reach out to divorced people.

Now the church has a NEW controversial issue -the gay issue – to demonize and condemn. I wonder what their next “big issue” will be after the gay issue becomes a non-issue?  It will only be a matter of time,  the more Christ-followers rise up and make their voices of acceptance and compassion for gay people heard. The church will either have to embrace gay people or become extinct.

[starfielderParticipant]

yeh, they like this gay issue. Probably because it’s easier to point out that it’s “them” and not “us” that has an issue. I think I’m not wounded just sad. I have a lot of compassion for marginalized people. As a spiritual director I hear lots and lots of stories. And sometimes it just gets to me. This is one of those times.

[AmyParticipant]

ECO was the denom that one of my former churches wanted to join, but they decided against it (too conservative, though less conservative than PCA).  I believe John Ortberg had some hand in creating the ECO, which is disappointing because he has some pretty decent things to say about other areas of social justice.  Yuck.

[starfielderParticipant]

Ugh Amy. He probably did… I’ll look it up. I wish, so wish they didn’t feel need to keep tromping down that path. But they are determined I guess.

[AngParticipant]

Seems the church causes more harm than good…….  So why did I spend, what will be over half my life, promoting the crap they pile on unsuspecting people, like me.   And we wonder why the world is so screwed up!!!!

[Author]

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