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AnonymousWhen I “Told My Story” yesterday, I shared my view of rules vs. morals. To me, morals resonate in my soul…a sort of compass for navigating the world that sets well deep within and allowing myself to be guided by them brings me peace. Rules, on the other hand, function independent of morals. I see them as a way of stifling fears and controlling behavior. Following them typically equates with group inclusion. Whether you view them as separate or entwined, I can’t imagine we’ve not all felt the judgement of challenging them–whether that judgment came from within or from the exterior.
I thought it may be neat to start a thread on this topic to discuss our personal journeys challenging some of these morals and/or rules.
For example–I was always taught that drinking alcohol was a major sin. I don’t even know where this idea originated or how it evolved to a choice equated with sinning and “backsliding.” All I knew is it was off limits and I was never supposed to go there. As I began to question things in my early 20’s, I found myself curious about beer and wine. I had my first alcoholic drink when I was about 21. I didn’t overindulge or make myself sick…but simply wanted to experience the taste. Nothing happened after my first beer or margarita…I was exactly the same person after a drink than I was 5 minutes earlier. I still felt this overwhelming sense of fear/judgement but over time, it lessened. I eventually learned to walk in to a liquor store and make a purchase without looking over my shoulder or order a cocktail without scanning the restaurant with anxiety. Years later and I am saddened by the feelings of guilt that were planted by my church and all the “undoing” I had to do.
Do you have any experiences of challenging rules and/or morals? Perhaps you’re on the fence about trying something but weighed down by the years and year of guilt and brainwashing. Maybe this forum is a good place to talk it out. Sure wish it was around back when I was figuring it all out for myself.
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This topic was modified 2 years, 1 month ago by
David Hayward.
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This topic was modified 1 year, 11 months ago by David Hayward.
It’s unfortunate that the church and church leaders have a habit of pronouncing against something without having full information. Is it because they really think the world around us is dangerous and we need protecting? I have known some people who thought there were demons around every corner.
I remember a pastor telling everyone they shouldn’t go and see “The Life of Brian” because it is clearly blasphemous and offensive. It isn’t – it’s hilariously funny, not insulting to Christ at all, and it helps if you’re a Christian because you’ll get the Biblical jokes.
On another occasion, a church elder where I was attending at the time said no Christian should watch or read horror. I went straight out and bought some Stephen King, and now I’ve read nearly everything he’s ever written.
Then there was “The Last Temptation of Christ”. Yes, I saw it, but didn’t like it. But I wouldn’t have considered not seeing it just because someone said we shouldn’t.
I had to read “The Da Vinci Code” of course, but didn’t feel rebellious at all because our church minister had already read it! It’s an enjoyable enough story, historical accuracy on a level with Indiana Jones.
Grown ups should make their own decisions, and pastors/elders should credit their congregations with some intelligence.
AnonymousI love the way you’re thinking this through, honeyglow, though my initial response to both the words – “rules” and “morals” – is negative. There’s something so binding and constrictive about them. I completely agree that we have an internal compass…that it can be trusted to guide and direct. But I like to think about that “voice” as my intuition, my deepest truth, even the divine that dwells in my DNA.
My experience as a woman is that we lose the ability to trust that inner voice; that rules and morals become the determiners of our behavior, our sense of self, and the sliding scale of our goodness. Grrrrrr!
I often wonder what it would be like if the message in the church was one that encouraged us to trust that inner knowing, to believe that our hearts can be trusted, to recognize that know-that-I-know-that-I-know voice to be that of God. Mmmmmm.
AnonymousWow! Ronna and katiepearl–you’ve both made comments that really resonated with me. katiepearl–it’s refreshing to read how you can separate your choices of entertainment from it’s impact on your spiritual walk. It’s been 15 years and I still feel guilt/shame over certain choices. It gets better but I cannot believe the time it’s taken to truly kill those roots. I love your line “grown ups should make their own decisions, and pastors/elders should credit their congregations with some intelligence.” That makes so much sense! Unfortunately, that was not my experience and it’s had an unbelievable impact on my ability to live freely, without burden.
Ronna–I LOVE your comparison of our internal compass (or what I’ve called my morals) to one’s intuition. I couldn’t agree more!! Intuition is an amazing innate gift that we’re all born with, but needs to be listened to in order to get stronger. Unfortunately, we’re often taught to suppress that voice and it weakens over time. I’ve been working on listening to my intuition since reading an incredible book “Fearless Living” by Rhonda Britten back in 2006. I talk all the time about how strong my intuition has gotten over the years and it’s one of the few things I know I can trust fully and completely. I don’t think I ever made that connect between my intuition and my morals. Makes a lot of sense and allows me to see that even when I was in the midst of questioning so many of the “rules”, my intuition knew it’s way all along and was begging to be heard. Thank you so much for sharing this analogy!
KatiePearl – You are a rebel. I think I like you.
Ronna – love the “trusting the inner voice” idea. Um… isn’t this what discipleship is supposed to be?
Honeyglow – thanks for this topic! One of my best experiences in this arena is what we did with our discipleship school (9-month, college aged group). We started the first class with a discussion about “rules” and “agreements.” When we did a word association with “rules” it was nearly all negative. When we did it with “agreements” it was mostly positive. We basically didn’t have any rules for the school other than the agreements that the students came up with together with the staff. What this allowed us to do is to enter discussion about what was mutually beneficial for our group. Our decisions came out of community and not a rule book. We had some pretty cool stories as how this served us much better as growing disciples than a set standard would have ever accomplished.
Look forward to hearing what others have to say about your topic.
Chad
AnonymousI love this, honeglow: “my intuition knew it’s way all along and was begging to be heard…” YES! SO with you on this!
AnonymousOh, that it were so, Chad – discipleship as trusting our intuition. More often (at least in my experience) it has been learning to doubt intuition and place my faith/trust in something outside of me; something authoritative; something “safe.” This is the un-programming I’ve been doing for years now as a woman – sometimes leaping ahead boldly, other times stepping tentatively.
But YES – this IS the work of discipleship at it’s very, very best.
AnonymousLove your story Chad about “agreements” vs “rules”–much more positive and collectively agreed upon. Plus, it leaves lots of room for personal judgment and “intuition.” Ronna, I am glad to hear I’m not the only one, who years and years later, is still dealing with un-programming, and, like you said, at times “leaping ahead boldly, other times stepping tentatively.” I bet you’ve read some good books on the topic of intuition. Any suggestions?
AnonymousMmmm, books on intuition, honeyglow? Probably the one that comes to me is Women Who Run With the Wolves, by Clarissa Pinkola Estes. A HUGE confirmation of the woman’s experience and her voice. There are so many others, but this is by far my favorite. I re-read it over and over again. Sacred Writ to be sure…
AnonymousOoooh, thanks for the title Ronna. I’ll have to track it down soon!
What a great discussion topic honeyglow. My first foray into the world of thinking for myself and trusting my self was also to do with alcohol. I was also taught tht it was sinful always and the only purpose for it was in rebellion to God. (Never mind that one of the old covenant tithes actually called for a celebration using wine and other strong drink…lol) I think this was one of the first teachings of the church that I actually studied out for myself and found lacking. What I found in my bible was instructions calling for minding our “morals” when we consumed it. In fact this very subject was kind of a watershed for me in that it taught me I could not blindly trust everything I was taught. Another area of intense “rule” making in nearly all churches is sexuality. Every church I have ever attended has firmly believed that all sex outside of marriage is sinful. This “rule” is not present in the bible however. Presently my wife and I (Of nearly 30 incredible years) have come to a point of recognizing that our marriage covenant (including our sexuality) is between us…not between us and the church. As such we have modified our agreement. No we are not swingers or in an open relationship looking for outside sexual partners, but we are very much a poly couple. For those who may not be familiar with poly, it is a belief that a person can have more than one genuine loving relationship in a healthy and trusting way. For us this represents an exclusive 4 way quad with our best friends (themselves married for 20 years) who over the past 6 years have become our 2nd spouses so to speak. Church rules absolutely prohibit our choice. For us it is incredible in so many ways we never imagined. I apologize if this is beyond what some may be comfortable discussing. However since the issue of love and intimacy is one which is at the forefront of this discussion for so many it seemed appropriate to share from our journey where we have sought long and hard to understand the difference between rules and morals.
The more I study the life of Christ the more I realize just how much He rejected rules yet embraced morals. Then of course He completely summed it all up in the law of love, which is a safe guide for us in learning to trust our selves in our personal choices. I have come to believe there are very few if any hard and fast rules.
I like Chad’s perspective on agreements very much so long as the choice to determine if the agreements are best is still left with the individual. Accepting structure to voluntarily belong to a group is good. The true test, I would think, as to how healthy such a group really is would be in how they handle those who would disagree.
Love this discussion so far.
AnonymousHi Gary! Appreciated reading your candid post and how you and your wife have come to a mutual agreement on your sexual covenant. I very much agree that a sexual covenant is between partners (be they married/unmarried/heterosexual/gay/lesbian/transgendered, etc) and they should have the right to create a union that makes sense to them as a couple. I’m extremely open-minded and supportive of “living and let live.” Sexuality is very complex and can be a highly sensitive topic for many when it comes to church experience. Some of my most hurtful church experiences centre on sexuality. I find it very sad that what one chooses to do in the privacy of their own bedroom can have such a bearing on how they’re treated or viewed in the eyes of the church. The mere assumption that your sex life be a measuring stick of your spiritual walk is just plain unbelievable to me. What do others think?
Thanks for the kind reply honeyglow. I totally agree with you that the way the church treats the issue of sexuality is very sad, and I believe very damaging. One thing my study of the bible has clearly taught me is that sexuality is both very subjective and circumstantial. There is no single standard taught. To me, a person’s choices concerning sexual behavior and relationships need to be held to the same standard as any other area in our lives…the standard of love. The difference being moral behavior as opposed to rules as you have so wonderfully illustrated. The only personal choices one makes that I would take issue with are ones which genuinely cause harm to another. Society attempts to police such behaviors and in large part does a reasonable job. And oddly enough where I believe society comes up short most often is in areas where the church has had undue influence such as prohibiting equal rights for same sex couples.
AnonymousCouldn’t agree more Gary!! And equal rights for non-heterosexual couples is something I’m VERY passionate about too. I am very involved in our GLBT community and it bothers me very much the way this group is judged and treated. I like to think it’s improving, but I still feel we have a long ways to go as a society!
Yes I think the GLBT struggle is our present day version of racial prejudice, which was the new version of women’s rights, which was the new version of legalized slavery, etc. etc. etc. Each of these immoral yet legal atrocities were supported by the religion of the day. I do see progress in our present struggle , but you are right in that we have a very long way to go.
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