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Noticed, that is, that I am coming to church less.
The pastor commented on it after church last night. Not in a bad way, but in genuine concern that he was seeing me attend less than I was a few months ago. I didn’t go yesterday morning, nor have I been to morning church at all in several weeks. And I didn’t go at all last week because I was as a writers’ conference. We agreed we should find a few hours to talk about how things are going, but we both knew last night was a bad a time to pick a when (he’s going into surgery for cancer shortly and then there’s therapy). I actually really like how he seems to recognise my Introvertness and knows how to honour it.
However, I’m just not onboard anymore with the ring-fenced Bible teaching everyone subscribes to. And I really want someone in the church I can talk to about that, but I don’t think I’ll really find it because they are likely to want to argue me back inside. I’ve not really believed for some years the Bible was the only thing we need in our religious instruction – that’s the start of a long, slippery slope.
It’s interesting to see the assumptions church Christians make because I’m seeing them from a point-of-view I’ve never had before. Such as, once you’re on a roster then there probably shouldn’t be any reason to stop that ministry. People think they have every right to know why you want to stop doing something you’re clearly good at (I am a musician, for instance) and don’t really understand when I say “I’ve had enough”. And that’s the version of my reply for those who I know can’t accept “My beliefs are not what they used to be” – which is most everyone. I haven’t yet really tried out “God’s setting me free from this ministry”. Maybe I should.
I don’t fully know why I kept going to church once I grew up. There was a lot of habit, I do know that. More recently I guess I thought it was a place to learn. Now I keep coming back because there are friends there I don’t want to not ever see again. But I can’t sing the songs anymore and I can’t agree with the sermon anymore. I really don’t think most of my fellow-church goers have seen someone fall away before. And I’m wary of showing them until it’s too late for arguments.
I’m rambling again. I guess I’m trying to talk my way around to properly leaving this church that is populated by people who are genuinely nice-and-all, unlike so many of the other stories here on TLS.
Wade.
AnonymousUh-oh! Once they notice you are coming less and less is when all the questions and “we’re concerned about you” comments start – and you can’t really give them an honest answer because they would have NO CLUE what you’re talking about. (Not to mention thinking you’re going straight to hell!) It IS hard to disengage from church without losing all your church friends. I don’t know why it has to be that way but most of the time it is. Been there done that, and you have my sympathies!
The one friendship with a close friend from my former church that I thought wouldn’t be affected by my leaving apparently has ended. I have called, left messages/texts, etc. and she has not returned my calls, so I’m assuming our friendship is over. I could really press the issue, but I’m not going to beg her to continue to be my friend. If she valued our friendship she would get in touch with me. And in one way, I’m glad she hasn’t, because I’ve realized that 80% of our conversation used to be about church and people in our church, and since we no longer have that in common, it’s probably best to just let it go rather than try and resurrect our relationship.
Ugh, both times we left churches we had the “you need to find someplace immediately or you’ll end up never going to church again” talks. We had the same thing when our son was born and church attendance was hard, so we only went to Sunday school & just borrowed the sermon tapes. It’s like real-life concern trolling. We ended up at our previous church because we never gave ourselves permission to look. We both felt pressured to know what church we wanted and to stick to it, so we ended up at a church where we made a lot of friends but suffered a lot of spiritual damage. When we left, they offered to “help” us find a different church. We took time off from going, and we planned to attend several churches. We liked the first one we tried, so we stayed. But I don’t go because I feel like I have to–I go because the liturgy is comforting. The church doesn’t have a lot of programs or ministries; people are encouraged to do that outside the building, so I don’t feel trapped or sucked in.
The church definitely noticed when I stopped going hahaha
@staticsan, I had some friendships that were good and seemed genuine. Decent folks simply trying to do the best they can. None of them wanted any type of friendship after we left. I have learned not to blame them because they have been brainwashed to see those in the church as “good people” and those outside as something decidedly less than that. There were a couple of friends who I really expected better of that did hurt us badly…but for most of them we recognize they simply have no idea how a real friendship outside the walls of the church would be possible.
@staticsan, your pastor sounds like a nice guy. Perhaps he might surprise you how understanding he is about where you are at? I was able to keep a friendship with an Anglican minister when I didn’t attend her church and was going through a Dawkins phase.
@Gary that describes 90% of the friends we had at our last church. We’re in touch with some on FB, but not face-to-face. Part of that was the structure of church–you made friends with your Bible study group and saw them twice a month at meetings. You didn’t even have to try to have a relationship outside that context. Because our group was…well, a lot of people more like us, we’ve stayed friends with some of them. With everyone else, either we have to make ALL the effort or they’ve outright avoided us.
Friendships beyond church are definitely the problem. I guess this is the problem when you only see church people at church.
Oddly enough, Facebook is letting me keep in touch with people who used to be at my church and have moved on for one reason or another. Or at least, still see what their lives are like. The five or six who do post regularly respond to comments’n’all and haven’t unfriended me or anything. But then, one in particular left under a cloud (just as were starting to get to know each other better), another is a former minister, two more actually never really let churchness stand in the way of friendship. So.
@Helene, my pastor is likely to understand. Or at least will make a good effort to. We had a good discussion a couple of months ago about a range of things, including the types of manhood-awareness he wanted to introduce the men of the church to. This is something I know more about than most men in my church for reasons rather off-topic in this thread, so we had an illuminating discussion. Likewise, the music pastor (who recently quit that post because he was re-arranging some of his professional life) would understand, too.
I guess it’s the making-an-effort bit that needs to happen. And since I’m the one drifting away, it needs to be lazy old me to expend the effort. The fact you see them at church most weeks I think makes us a bit lazy.
(It helps one chap also follows me on Twitter, but he tends to argue when I posit a view that doesn’t agree with his faith-choices. :-/ Which is a pity because he is how I got back into DnD role-playing.)
Wade.
@staticsan The position you’re in with your church is pretty much the position me and my partner were in too only we didn’t actually have any friends there at all… But it got to a point whereby we just weren’t agreeing with the church sermons anymore, we were seeing that singing was ultimately pointless, and that we were in an highly contrived environment that was completely cut off from the rest of the world. We just decided one day not to go, and then we didn’t next week either, and we have been back probably once in the past four months. The main problem with that is that my partner’s parents expect us to go to church and basically wouldn’t take our reasons for an answer so we essentially have to watch the sermon online when they go off to church, and then tell them about it when they get back to make it look like we actually attended too. Its irritating to say the least…
All I know is, my partner’s dad pastored and tended to a church for something like 15 years, he gave everything he had to it, and when a dispute erupted and we left to find another one, barely any of the people there stay in contact with him, after 15 years.. Just proves how fake most of the relationships are within church really.
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