This topic contains 13 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by 
Emily Riley 1 year, 4 months ago.
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I’ve heard bad things about this guy..from evangelical christians.. and I never watched any of his videos until today. This entire video all the way until right before he says “Good thing I’m not wrong” is like he took the thoughts out of my head. I’m thinking maybe he’s a wee bit smug..but he has a lot of really good points…
I SO watched this…and 3 more of this guy’s videos….it captured my attention!
He may be a bit smug, but I’m convinced he is absolutely right! The problem is that he knows nothing about the Christian FAITH and was talking about the Christian RELIGION – or CHRISTENDOM.
I know my daughter would relate entirely to that talk – and I’m convinced that God would understand.
Why would God be upset with anyone who rejected what they saw was seriously misguided?
Far more to the point is why a loving God allows this misguided belief to continue being spread – but that’s another story!
Ah you’ve discovered Scott Clifton. Someone once told me I sounded like him so I went and looked him up. They said this when I was still a believer so I was a little intrigued. I was a little weary of the name of his page , Theoretical Bullshit, but once I listened to him I found that we did have some similarities. His parents were practicing Buddhist but raised him without religion. His take on things come from a place of never being a person of faith. One of the things I’ve asked myself is if I’d even be here engaging in this dialogue with you guys had I not been born into a Christian family who raised me to be a believer.
Knowing what I know now, I find it hard to understand how I maintained my faith and stayed a part of the religion for as long as I did. I may be misinterpreting what you’re saying Pete, but do you believe that a person who has never experienced Christian faith is unable to fully speak to the this topic? I ask because an exercise I performed years ago required me to tackle Islam. I know a lot about the religion, yet I’ve never had a personal Islamic faith. Even with that deficit, I’m still able to list the reasons I don’t believe in Allah.
Wow. That was a great watch, very fruitful and thought-provoking. I have thought down similar paths in the past regarding this very concept. That God cannot be the being of ultimate compassion, love and morality, and then actively send people to damnation for eternity simply because their personal experiences led them down a different path, and because they felt compelled not to believe because of the evidence, thanks to the brain and the logic given by God.
When you take the salvation on the cross at face-value, it was done because everyone was rife with sin, and God didn’t like that, so God sent Jesus to die on the cross in order to eradicate that sin from everyone, forever. Jesus said he was doing it to save humanity and I frankly believe him. I believe the sin we commit is not failing to go to church, or failing to believe in a holy book, or getting a life-saving abortion, its the things that are actually bad for our souls, the things that actually make us feel bad afterwards, the things that makes others feel bad. Whether it be insulting someone because we were angry, or snapping at the parents because you thought they were being invasive of your privacy or something, or cheating on your current partner etc. That is the sin that Jesus wanted to get rid of, the stuff we do everyday that we wished we didn’t, or the stuff we wished we could take back.
If God really is the God that Christians describe, and the God that Jesus represented by his perfect life, then I truly believe that God would want to save everybody. But all too often, I have heard the church preach about a God that is alien to me. One that wants us all to be afraid, one that wants to make us all servants, one that is selfish, one that is arrogant, one that is vain and one that is quick to anger. All things that are completely contrary to Jesus I might add.
I completely see what this guy is saying on so many levels. The idea of election (that god handpicks a minority of (christian) humans to be saved, a theology I was brought up in) always seemed strange to me and this guy explained the first conflict I had with that theology. That if god knows us and loves this creation so fully and so deeply and is a benevolent, forgiving entity, why would people be sent to hell for not conforming to a specific religion? For example, I can completely see why an atheist might not believe in God, let’s say for example that they had an abusive christian upbringing which they now equate to god and as they hate their parents, they also hate religion. That’s rational and if I can understand that, God surely must be able to do so. As this guy said, if rapists and abusers can waltz into heaven because they “believe” but decent people who don’t, can’t, then there’s really no morality about the whole thing, which is fascinating when morality is one of the main driving focal points of the church today.
Kay, I descended a bit into a waffle but you see what I mean ( I hope)
AnonymousGood find Mox. I so totally feel where this guy is coming from.
Servantgirl – a fair comment, but yes I think you did misunderstand. As John said, I can feel where this chap is coming from. I was suggesting that he was absolutely right in what he was saying based on his understanding of the Christian RELIGION.
That’s what I thought Pete. That’a also why I’m big on clarification. My mind goes to the weirdest places sometimes. Lol. I get you now.
Quite right. The ideologies he was referencing; the concepts of election, hell, all descriptions and teachings of God come directly from the religion itself, or more specifically, the church’s teachings. I do agree with everything he said, but it serves only to point out the flaws in the religion itself, rather than the actual belief.
AnonymousGreat Video – thanks for the link! It’s pretty much some of the conclusions I have come to as well.
Another answer to “What if you’re wrong”
very well said. from my background they would go against the entire idea of this video and say “well that’s why the bible says don’t lean on your own understanding.”
honestly though this is one of my biggest hang ups still two years later in this journey away from fundamental Christianity. what if I’m wrong? what if my questions and experiences ultimately don’t matter because those would be “my own understanding.” what if after genuinely seeking and asking and hearing no response from this supposed loving god I still end up “an object of his wrath.” the thought doesn’t terrify me with nightmares and panicked fears like it used to but it is truly the biggest reason to my not coming out publicly as an atheist. I absolutely hate how paralyzing fear can be.
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