This topic contains 49 replies, has 14 voices, and was last updated by 
Wade 1 year, 7 months ago.
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I’ve been sitting in this desert place for awhile now Gary and Hugh. Glad to know there is company out here.
Anonymous@cowboyjunkey you nailed it about trusting God when you feel nothing – when everything just doesn’t seem to be working out and the last thing you feel like doing is trusting. Isn’t that what happened to Job? Also @starfielder @Chris @Gary @Hugh great to know you folks are here and we can have some honest conversations being real with each other. I wonder what we could do with wrestling through these kind of topics together. Would you all be up for some of that? I think we could have some great conversations
@Adam I think that is what goes on around here already.
Anonymous@Gary – you are probably right
@Adam-Julians I’m thinking I should read Job now. That is maybe what I need.
And to all: I look forward to many great discussions together!
cowboyjunkey, I haven’t been reading Job… I’ve been reading about the fig tree that Jesus cursed. It was over there minding it’s own business… doing what it was suppose to do….
AnonymousWhat would a faith centered on Jesus look like?
I think a faith centered on Jesus would look very much like what Jesus talked about in the sermon on the mount, in Isaiah 61 and in the 13th chapter of Corinthians, and what He did while He was on this earth. It would be seen in people feeding and clothing the poor, visiting people in prison (legal or personal/emotional/spiritual prisons), showing compassion to the broken-hearted, loving unconditionally, being kind, not returning evil for evil, keeping no record of wrongs, doing good to those in need, genuinely accepting and treating every person with respect – especially those ostracized/judged by society and/or religious people.
Do I think that kind of faith is easy? NO! It is something I fall far short of, but something I continue to shoot for. It is probably the most challenging thing in the world – but also the most personally rewarding.
Star – I have a theory about that fig tree that Jesus cursed. I think that whole scenario was about the false advertising so prevalent within religious circles. Because of the fig tree’s appearance, Jesus was fully expecting that fig tree to have nice juicy figs on it which would refresh, nourish, and sustain him. But when Jesus discovered that fig tree was nothing but false advertising, he was angry.
The church is filled with all kinds of false advertising! People are drawn to the church because it looks inviting with its promises to be a safe, nurturing group of loving people who will be your family – a family who will stand with you through tough times and never turn its back on you. Well, that is until you dare to question or disagree with the church’s leadership/theology/doctrine, etc. The church promises to be a place of belonging and acceptance, yet it will turn on people at the drop of a hat. The church is guilty of false advertising and Jesus isn’t happy about that! Hope that makes sense. I explained this better on a different forum, but I don’t remember which one.
Anonymous@cowboyjunkey Would be great to hear your thoughts as a reult of reading Job
I have read ‘God’s Problem’ by Bart Ehrman in which he brings up some interesting points about the book of Job. There are a number of explanations for the problem of evil revealed in the pages of scripture. According to the first part of Job one of the reasons that people suffer could be because God has a wager with Satan and people could be undergoing a test of fidelity. However by the end of the book suffering is just a mystery and we are not to question how God works. Some scholars contend that the book of Job is two stories woven together, one prose and one poetic. That does make some sense of the ‘nonsense’. I think the book of Job raises more questions than it answers. All generations have wondered why there is so much suffering in the world. The author(s) of Job had some interesting ideas but I don’t know if they are true. The whole ‘wager’ scenario between God and satan seems kind of bizzare.
If the Old Testament violence was about defending oneself from enemies I think an ethical argument could be made in favor of god ordered violence, but the Old Testament God ordered violence in the name of conquering and punishing. This included the ordered rape of the virgin girls of their enemies. It’s called “marriage” but can you imagine watching your family being murdered and then being forced to “marry” the very person who committed that violence against your family?
It is far more likely that the Bible is simply an Iron Age ethical document that only has relevance today because the Roman Empire took on its cause. There is so much borrowing of ideas from pagan sources that the only major differences is that the Bible presents it as a monotheistic story and changes many of the mythical stories to real people. You can see the tendency of its narrative to be critical of civil powers and suggest that the nation be run by Priests. There is a lot of propaganda in the Bible for the purposes of putting a particular group into power. The Jesus narrative transfers blame from Rome to the Jews. Doesn’t that seem rather convenient since the Roman Empire basically became the church?
I have long ago given up on trying to make the Bible some type of spiritual guide. The parts that are useful have other sources that present those ideas in much more understandable ways.
I’m with you Hugh, “I think the book of Job raises more questions than it answers. All generations have wondered why there is so much suffering in the world. The author(s) of Job had some interesting ideas but I don’t know if they are true. The whole ‘wager’ scenario between God and satan seems kind of bizzare.”
The thing I don’t like about Job is the implication that he stays loyal to god even though the evidence is that god is not trust worthy. And the story reveals the lack of value for human life and animal life because somehow god makes it up to Job by giving him a new family and new flocks to replace the ones he let get destroyed. And then god scolds Job with the typical mysterious ways clause.
I saw really funny reference to this apologetic by Penn Gillette of Penn and Teller. The example was given that one day Penn walks in on someone who has just raped and killed his sister and this person tells Penn he did it because he’s a mysterious guy.
i LOVE job… the one biblical book of our age
Ok, @admin SAY MORE…
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