This topic contains 26 replies, has 16 voices, and was last updated by 
-
Posts
-
AnonymousWhen I was still involved in a fundamentalist Christian campus ministry group, I was questioning my sexuality/identity. The group and the leaders were very clear and adamant about their stance on homosexuality, which, as you may have guessed, stated that homosexuality is a sin and against God’s plan. I had been talking to my friend Sam, who is an openly gay man attending a Christian college, and he was very supportive of my journey of questioning my sexuality. He listened to me when I told him about my attractions for women and encouraged me to continue seeking out my identity – whatever it may be. Sam was holding an event at the college he attended in which he invited Justin Lee, the founder of the Gay Christian Network, to speak to students wondering about how one can transform the conversation between gays and Christians. I came up with the idea of taking two of the leaders from my church group to this event to possibly help them see “my side of the story” or just how we could talk about this in a way that wasn’t demeaning towards me.
The leaders said that it might be a good idea to talk to the pastor of the church the campus ministry group was affiliated with and see if he would like to attend as well. So, we set up a meeting in which the two leaders, the pastor, and I would talk about attending Sam’s event with Justin Lee. I went into the conversation thinking it was just that – we were going to talk about the event. I walked right into a trap that still hurts me to this day.
The pastor started off by saying a prayer, praying that God would be present in this conversation, and that He would help us see His “Truth” in this matter. The pastor then proceeded to read me all of the passages in the Bible that explained the church’s clear stance against homosexuality. I had never really stood up for myself until this point. I played the “lost girl who needed fixed by Jesus” a lot of the time. At the meeting, I decided to put my foot down and firmly – not passively like before – say that I didn’t think that the Bible was against loving, committed, same-sex relationships. I argued with them about each and every passage. At the end, they said “Emily, we can only tell you the Truth. You are the one who has to decide. And we hope you choose God’s Truth.”
I left the conversation with my head held high, but once I got out of that church and into my car, I broke down. I hadn’t shed a tear during the whole conversation, but I wept. And I wept. And I wept. I didn’t really know why I was crying, but it hurtso much.
Now, as an “out” queer (and) Christian woman, I still remember that conversation. I know that others have had much worse conversations, where there was much more verbal abuse concerning the subject. For me, the passive-aggressiveness of that conversation (and almost all other conversations I had with that group) hurt more than blatant verbal abuse because it crushed me with the weight of my own shame. I did all of the abuse that they didn’t, by beating myself up inside for not being “strong enough” to “Let Go and Let God.” Now, even though I (finally) left that group, I still feel shameful for going on dates with women. There’s still something inside of me that says that being myself is wrong.
I can’t shake this feeling of shame. And I’m angry at God for it. I’m angry at myself for it. I’m angry at them for giving me the feeling of shame in the first place. But it won’t go away.
I don’t know how to make it go away.
Wow Emily I feel so sad! I am so sad you were made to feel shame. Shame is sucky! Something that has helped me with shame resilience is the work of Dr. Brene Brown. Her blog on Ordinary Courage (http://www.ordinarycourage.com/) has been a source of light in opposition to the darkness of shame. She is a shame researcher. I heard her first on Ted Talks. (http://www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_on_vulnerability.html) I’ve also liked her books such as, I Though it Was Just Me (but it isn’t): Telling the Truth about Perfectionism, Inadequacy and Power. She has shame curriculum as well on her website.
Thank you for your vulnerability. Peace.
AnonymousI don’t have any wise words for you, but thank you for sharing your story. I know you know that there is nothing wrong, dirty, bad, or shameful about you. It’s okay to be angry that these leaders tried to make you feel ashamed. It’s okay to be angry at God.
What you’ve said is a big part of the reason we needed to get our family out of our last church–they made entire groups of people (including but not limited to gay people) feel so terrible. They are still doing that even now. It makes me sick that churches are still hurting people and calling it “God’s truth.”
AnonymousI can relate to this in a slightly different way. I too was made to be ashamed of how I was born. I was born with cerebral palsy. I attended a church that taught divine healing was in the covenant. If a Christian wasn’t healed it was because their faith was weak or they sucked at spiritual warfare and were letting the devil keep their healing…or they had sin in their life.
Every so often a member of that church felt led to pray for me. I had demons of cerebral palsy cast out of me. I had people try to help me figure out what the sin in my life was. I had people tell me I needed to feed my faith by memorizing huge chunks of scripture. But alas, I remained with cerebral palsy. And I despaired. And I became ashamed of who I was. And it was all so much bull shit!
First, to Emily: I’m glad you got out! I’m so sorry you have been hurt like that..it makes me sick, too. I had a loving, kind, and incredible mentor for one beautiful year before our (former) church kicked him out for being gay. (Okay, they said “recant your homosexual sin, or you must leave) BUT it’s the same thing. :'(
JEB…That’s SO horrible! I can’t imagine what kind of rebuke I would receive if I could have said to them what I just thought:
It was this: So, God’s powerful enough to heal, but only if you’re powerful enough to get rid of sin in your life?? But then, why isn’t he powerful enough to make sure ALL people are born without birth defects, and that no babies are ever born too soon and have life long repercussions? NO! The poison of these religious “answers” and “solutions” is doing incredible DAMAGE to so many people! :'(
“When I was still involved in a fundamentalist Christian campus ministry group, I was questioning my sexuality/identity.” That is as far as I had read when I thought, “girl brace yourself…”
(and almost all other conversations I had with that group) hurt more than blatant verbal abuse because it crushed me with the weight of my own shame. ” ufff…devastation….I feel for you, thankyou for sharing.
AnonymousHi Emily:
Thanks for your honest sharing on this important subject. It is disgusting to me that you were set up in that phony meeting with those people who lied to you, and never had any intention of going to the educational event you made available to them. Part of me can’t help but wonder if the shame you are feeling is indeed their shame which they projected onto you because they are not strong enough to deal with it themselves. One time years ago I talked to a life coach who told me that the shame and guilt I had were forms of energy, and if I asked that energy where it came from, it had to answer honestly. You get quiet and picture the energy as a form in front of you, and you ask it “where did you come from, who do you belong to?” Sounds kind of gestalt I know, but it made me realize the bulk of my anger, guilt and shame came from others, from my parents on down. Once I cleared that out it made it easier to deal with the stuff that actually did belong to me, that actually was my job to address.
I felt so happy and proud reading about how you gracefully stood up for yourself in that meeting, and I think you purged a lot of toxins when you shed your sacred tears afterwards. Not only personal toxins, but eons of societal toxins as well and for that profound act of sacred service I thank you from the core of my being. I have a spiritual worldview that includes a strong belief in reincarnaton (not of course trying to tell anyone else what to believe) and I have read a lot of ‘channeled’ material, that is when people purport to be channeling various spiritual beings. I have no way of knowing whether any of it is true or not, but I do find it interesting sometimes and consciousness-expanding. I do not know if you are familiar with the ‘Jeshua’ channelings of Pamela Kribble, she is in the Netherlands and purports to channel the Christ consciousness which she calls Jeshua. The info is available for free online at http://www.Jeshua.net. One time they answered a reader’s question to Jeshua about his views on homosexuality, which I will include here just to offer one possible viewpoint among many. All the best to you and although you didn’t ask personally I think the only reason the bible contains any type of ‘prohibition’ against same sex behavior is b/c the church of Rome wanted everyone to reproduce as much as possible (no homosexuality, no birth control) in order to make their church as big as possible, with as many people tithing as possible. So there. Being gay seems so normal to me I’m sure I’ve been gay or bisexual in several of my past lifetimes. So here’s the ‘channeling’ for whatever it’s worth to you. I know you will filter it thru your own consciousness and if you want to totally reject it, that’s cool.
What is your perspective on homosexuality?
There’s nothing wrong with homosexuality. Homosexuality is perfectly honourable and the way it has been portrayed by various religious traditions, as sinful or harmful, stems from fear and prejudice. There’s nothing wrong with feeling attracted to people of the same gender. Actually, the preference for same sex or other sex is not as fixed and rigidly divided as many people think. You can be a heterosexual person and in some instances be attracted to people of the same sex. You might feel a soul connection that transcends the bodily form. In other words: you may be heterosexual generally, but feel attracted to someone from the same gender because there is a deep connection on the soul level. There is a sliding scale between heterosexuality and homosexuality instead of a fixed boundary.
In sexual relationships, what matters from the spiritual perspective is how you connect to each other from soul to soul. Whenever there’s a deep connection, which is marked by true companionship and mutual respect, the question whether you are male-female, male-male, or female-female does not really matter.
Of course, it does matter to the world whether you are homosexual. In many places around the world there is still prejudice and hostility about homosexuality. Many souls who incarnate as homosexuals are quite courageous, because they know they will face the issue of standing out, being different from others and having to deal with hostility and misunderstanding. It can be a conscious decision of the soul to experience this, either to face and overcome the emotional hurt of being rejected and become strong and independent because of it, or to raise consciousness on earth by making people reflect on the narrow-minded traditional definitions of sexual identity. Homosexual men, for instance, can show people how being male can easily go together with being sensitive and artistic. Homosexual men and women invite people to think differently about what it means to be male or female.
To homosexuals who feel torn and conflicted about their sexual nature I would say: do not judge the way you naturally feel, honour your nature and feel free to be who you are. Be true to yourself, don’t hide. Other people may learn something from you. Spouses or parents, who feel shocked and offended if you tell them about your nature, will somehow be touched by your courage and honesty, even if it doesn’t show on the surface. The truth always sets people free. By remaining true to yourself, you will heal yourself and be a light to others.
AnonymousThank you all. I can’t tell you how much it means to me that people care. I haven’t been able to express this to anyone else and I am so glad that there is a community of people here who bleed compassion and encouragement.
Vulnerability is a scary thing. It means facing the things that haunt us in our mind. Not only are we honest with others when we are vulnerable, but we are honest with ourselves. To me, the latter is even more difficult.
I’m not sure if any of you are familiar with Peter Rollins, but he is a postmodern/emergent Christian whose brilliant writings have helped me face what haunts my mind. Here is a quote from his article “The Problem with Unbelief is that it Enables Us to Believe Too Much “:
“This is why the people who leave fundamentalist communities are often not the ones who don’t take it seriously enough, but those who do (and who are thus confronted with the true horror of the communities beliefs). In my own experience I, along with a few friends, began to break free of religious belief precisely because we were naïve believers who took the teaching of the church more seriously than those in the church. The people who continued in a mode of disbelief were the ones that stayed because they were able to protect themselves from the trauma of actually believing their beliefs.” (from http://peterrollins.net/?p=3967)
This really hit home for me. I took the beliefs of my fundamentalist community – specifically about their views of homosexuality – seriously. I allowed their beliefs to haunt and control my mind so, even to this day, they still ring.
The first conversation concerning homosexuality I had with my fundamentalist community was about my twin brother who is gay. I (bravely) asked my small group if people could pray for him because he was starting the process of coming out to my extended family. People were completely silent for about a minute after I shared that, until one girl said “Wow. Thanks for sharing that.” Then, later that week, I met up with a few girls because they wanted to “hang out.” They conned me into talking to them about my brother, and their words still make me angry to this day. They said, “Emily, you should be concerned about your brother’s eternity – not supporting him here in his sinful life on earth.”
I wonder if it would be different for either of them if they had a twin brother, or a close family member, who was gay. Then, I think that they probably wouldn’t look at it differently at all because they are so wrapped up in their black-and-white, boxed-in version of “God’s Truth.”
Emily, I love Peter Rollins stuff!
As for the “advice” about your brother being gay. My sister is gay. My experience is exactly what you say: “it would be different for either of them if they had a twin brother, or a close family member, who was gay. Then, I think that they probably wouldn’t look at it differently at all because they are so wrapped up in their black-and-white, boxed-in version of “God’s Truth.” I have to say, journeying with my sister as she “came out” I have learned a lot. I love her and she is great! I love her wife as well. May you be in community that loves you! Peace.
I’m very sorry for your pain Emily and the way your church treated you. But know that God is bigger than they can even conceive and that your internal sense of right and wrong is probably more attuned to what you’ve been taught than to the spirit within you. Search out that spirit…let it speak to you beyond what you’ve been taught, and I think you’ll begin to find strength and comfort.
Emily, and All,
I’ve not posted on TLS yet but have been reading for some time. I feel the limitations of “writing” a conversation when the subjects are so profound and tender.
I got to be “the gay sister”. Growing up in the church, that I deeply loved, I learned that earnest, true conversation about truth, faith, doubt, was quickly answered with the party line. It was not enough for me. In many cases I think the party line protects “us”, the “church” from intimacy, from really knowing and loving each other. If we don’t know the deep truths about ourselves and others, we don’t have to be loving and vulnerable to them. We don’t have to be responsible to them. Shame is a useful weapon for manipulating others if you don’t want to know them. It works well if we don’t want to know ourselves too and it is worth standing up against – every time.
Gay in the church is a tough nut. For that matter, gay in the world can be a tough nut. There are so many unspoken fears and unspoken assumptions about what and who Gay people are. I find people are often so willing either to be judgmental and shut down the conversation or so hastily accepting that the conversation is stifled as well. The most amazing moments I have had, have been when I am openly, honestly who I am and I forget I am gay. I mean, that becomes part of who I am like being blond or a parent or someone who likes the color blue. Those are precious moments of freedom. I have not had to make arrangements to accommodate anyone’s discomfort or enthusiasm, not even my own.
When the true agenda of a conversation is to prevent intimacy we run into the sort of abusive manipulation that is dictatorial. It is not about you, it is about the fear the other person is managing. You get to be the target since they desperately want to divert attention from the target they have in their own hearts. We can all be guilty of this.
So – for me, this is a conversation about vulnerability and what love expects and how love really acts. It is also about wrestling our own homophobia, which, by the way, is a huge task for anyone who is gay.
Let me say that my journey has been long. I am 47 and I feel like I spent years “wrestling the angel” until I was blessed, in spite of the church. My experience has taught me that love is truly, patient, and kind, it does not envy or boast, it is not proud, it is not rude, it is not self seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs, it does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always hopes, always preservers. Love never fails. If what we experience does not fit this criteria, it is not love. We, humans, and we, the church, have a long and glorious history of being unloving to ourselves and others. The issue of sexuality is fraught with fear which, love is strong enough to cast out.
It is no mistake that my online name is “off the map”. We can probably all relate to those places where we looked around and the road signs were nonexistent and our community was unable to have a useful conversation that was supportive and helped us to know how to move forward. I suspect that a better name here would be “map maker” since this is a place where we can be out and open about how lost it all sometimes feels.
Emily – I want to specifically encourage you and say “blessings to you” on your journey. It is brave and you are standing up for your real experience. Trust yourself and be kind to yourself and do not let fear make your decisions – let love. Peace.
I like your response “off the map” I like the way you point out lack of intimacy, fear, shame and what love does. Thanks. peace.
AnonymousI pray blessings of fertilizer on the seeds of truth you planted in those religious leaders lives, Emily. You were playing a role in the evolution and hopefully victorious emergence of the truth of love in the spiritual consciousnesses of those men trapped in their idolatry of scripture. Bless you Emily. That was a mighty work you were open to, girl. That is the thought that jumped into my heart when I read your post. I don’t think the people who stand the ground for love realize they are sowing the seeds of love, they are digging the holes to plant the seed through their insistence on respecting the place love holds in our Christian faith, it’s value and it’s power. Fear hates love because love challenges fear based traditions. Love transforms and evolves with us. It never changes it’s central characteristics though, of deep compassion and kindness toward others.
I will be looking for a way to meet with my nephew in the near future. He has finally come out as a gay young man. My extended family is pretty set in the typical fundy mindset on this issue. The result is that he believes he is walking contrary to God’s will so it matters not how he behaves. As such he is engaging in some pretty destructive and highly risky behaviors. He has openly questioned everything about God and church and somehow has come through with a belief in God intact. But I sense it is a very warped view of who God is. This thread has been very helpful in preparing me to help him. I know he probably assumes I believe as the rest in my family do thanks to my silence since stating openly otherwise could potentially cost me much. I have been a very vocal advocate for change online…but always under the blanket of anonymity. Now it is family and to help I will need to risk much…including discovery that could cost me my part time job as faculty at a conservative Christian university. But my nephew needs help now. Thank you everyone for listening…and for your courage.
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.