This topic contains 25 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by 
David Hayward 1 year, 6 months ago.
-
Posts
-
Margaret Trezevant replied 3 hours, 57 minutes ago
Actually, it seems to me that government is exactly the place where marriages should be performed, and not churches. Churches are doing the work of the state, which is authorizing a legal contract defined by the laws of the state. It protects property, rights, inheritance, children, etc. A contract. The church, on the other hand, offers a sacrament, a blessing, calling on the community to witness, to celebrate, to uphold the couple in love and community. That’s not the state’s business. I think we’ve gotten into trouble by conflating the two.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Hi Margaret, I wasn’t meaning that marriage should be done in the church. I actually do not attend and/or belong to a church any longer. I have no plans of ever ‘getting married’ again. If I ever did choose to co-habitate with someone I wouldn’t be participating in a church ceremony, nor would I be signing a government contract of marriage. This is just my opinion and for me. What others choose is all okay with me.
I am very happy for Off The Map because she was able to do what she wanted to do. I just don’t think the government or the church has the right to say who can or cannot co-habitate together. Love is what matters.
Anonymous@Ang I totally get where you are coming from here, as in it is not the government’s right to dictate who should and should not be married. I believe that your idea of cohabitating is ideal. I can also understand how folks at this point in time who wish to live with each other in love and share their lives together as a family cannot truly do that without the government’s blessing. In order to file taxes together, purchase medical insurance under a family plan, sign up for a gym membership plan together, visit each other in the hospital, and other stuff that was mentioned in Margaret’s reply that government blessing is currently required at least in the US. But, again I like where you are going there.
I think we had two motivations for getting married. Part of it was the fact that this was a hard won opportunity that has taken years of effort and education. I cannot remember knowing anyone who wasn’t simply straight when I was growing up. That was certainly because anyone queer keep quiet or hidden – mostly. It is a powerful thing when you suddenly have a right that was never there and you never thought would be.
The second motivation was decidedly economic – with that $64 and that piece of paper, my partner inherits our property without incurring additional inheritance taxes. We still are not eligible for social security benefits on the Federal level, but I would hope that is on its way as well. The reality that you can cohabit and build a life together but not have the same economic status as a divorced straight couple is maddening. In the US, if you were married 9 years, and straight, you are entitled to some of your divorced spouses’ social security benefits. If you have been together with your same sex partner for thirty, you are not given that same entitlement.
We we first married by our friends and family in 2011. Everyone joined us at a campsite in the mountains and we stood together to state our intentions to be together. No clergy. No state. Family and friends and an excuse for a party! It was an important way for us to make a definitive statement – a declaration to our community. But we did not need church or state for that.
@Off the map, I was at that wedding and it was beautiful. It was probably one of my favorite weddings because everyone was happy to be with you and happy to be together. (except your poor uptight Mother… she’s coming around though. It’s hard to give up long entrenched beliefs) You and your spouse are a good match. It was good to see you celebrate your commitment and then to see you get the official government approval was all the more poignant. Your cake was the most awesome wedding cake by the way.
John and Off the Map, I understand. I have friends, female, and they have shared with me the legal expense they have had just to make sure their daughter will be properly taken care of and not be taken away from either of them if anything happens to the other. Their daughter was born after they were together so the daughter IS their daughter. It was maddening to me. Almost like they had double the problems legally just because they were same sex to keep their daughter like a heterosexual couple would with no questions. It makes absolutely no sense to me at all. I have gotten an education being friends with them. Ahhhh…. Life should be easier.
@Star, Thanks for sharing. Although I don’t like the government being in our business, I would love for my friends to have the opportunity to legally get married. They are such a happy family and rightly deserve to have the opportunity to do anything any other couple has.
This thread has been wonderful to read. Thanks John and everybody who contributed.
It’s so refreshing to hear about people who are willing to love people. Just people- without labeling them, or putting them in a box, or trying to classify them so as to separate ourselves. Thank you for writing this!
Thanks John for starting this thread and Wow Off the Map – thanks for sharing :). My partner and I got engaged last week, after the New Zealand government finally voted yes to same-sex marriage! Unfortunately we won’t be getting married in the Salvation Army church we both attend (and work for). All people in leadership within the NZ Salvation Army received an email the morning after the vote stating that they could NOT marry same-sex couples, the use of Salvation Army buildings were NOT to be used for such marriages, oh and to show love and mercy to the same-sex people (love the sinner, not the sin?!)
So when my partner announced our engagement on Sunday, we got congratulations from everyone except the pastor. He will get fired and kicked out if he so much as acknowledges our upcoming wedding. It’s sad. For him and us.
But, I have come a long way in the last 10 years or so, all this doesn’t really hurt like I thought it would. Truth is, we are getting married after 7 years together! I love the people I church with, including the pastor who does the best he can in a huge old-fashioned organisation.
AnonymousCongratulations @ippie to you and your soon to be spouse. Sounds like you have a pretty progressive community considering the denomination, congrats for that as well.
Wow @ippie… congratulations. i admire your courage to be.
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.