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Boundaries: When to Say YES, When to Say NO, To Take Control of Your Life
By Henry Cloud and John Townsend
But I must say…. I guess it didn’t do me very much good. Long story! ha ha
AnonymousFor me simply because I used it as a diving board into theme explorations, the Bible.
I have studied and re-read the bible more than six or seven times, at least in my life. I have studied the different translations and interpretations. I have studied the cultures that have demanded those translations or versions. I came to my appreciation of Anthropology through my biblical studies. I adore anthropology. I imagine I could have been an anthropologist, I like it so much.
The book that challenged me a great deal to come out of my comfort Zone with books concerning my spirituality was Marianne Williamson’s, ” A Course in Miracles”. After that bit of mind expansion I was ready to begin to look at the eastern religions. I love Buddist writings, I adore Taoist writings. When I came out of very careful reading lists into the more “dangerous” writings. I found I was completely surprised at the huge amounts of what I call Love, in those writings. I think it’s sad that so many chrisitans are warned away from the study of other faiths. I have never had another faith challenge my relationship with ABBA. I found a great sort of confirmation in that developement. Some in my family imagine my large and inclusive reading list has ruined me, lol. I am ruined for anything but love, that is true!
I would have to say it was Brennan Manning’s Lion and Lamb… It is what started my journey away from and out of spiritual abuse… I was the perfect poster boy for the church when someone handed me that book… I had no idea what I was in for… I was full of pride… I had a youth ministry that was drawing over 1/4 of the high school for our wednesday night youth service… We had 150 to 200 kids on wednesday night… our sunday morning service only drew about 100 to 125… I was rockin it!! I was preaching every 4th sunday to the adults… people would just gush on me after services about my sermons and my “wisdom”… I thought I could just about walk on water… I was a prick actually… I thought I had a patent on the truth… and I acted like it… I spoke at large youth gatherings… trained other pastor’s… was the guest speaker at many retreats and camps… huge alter calls… you name it… I had arrived… lmao!
Then I read the book… I remember being SOOOO angry… righteous godly anger of course ( cough cough )… I would yell at the book and manning… YOU HERETIC!! I finished the book and set out to destroy these lies… LMAO… I was going to pick it apart a piece at a time and then blast the person… that had given me the book to read… with the TRUTH!!
It didn’t quite go down that way… the more I dug into the original texts to prove brennan “the heretic” manning wrong… the more questions that arose… a couple years later I reread the book… this time I wept…
It was a rough couple years… but I came away a changed person… the irony here is that the farther I got away from the church… the more my day to day life resembled the teachings of christ…lmao… go figure… =)
So yeah… Lion and Lamb…
Peace
jadedfool/david… roar! baaaaaaaah.
=)
AnonymousJaded Fool – I am a HUGE Brennan Manning fan! But I was not aware of his Lion and Lamb book. Hope it’s not out of print cuz I really want to read it.
Did you read The Furious Longing of God ? That is my all time favorite Brennan Manning book so far, and I’ve read most of them.
I know exactly what you mean about being more like Christ after you walked away from the church and all its toxic theology/doctrine/ politics, etc. I left all that behind a year ago and I am experiencing that same thing. (That STILL amazes me how that happens!)
The fact that you had been such a “successful” youth pastor and “rising star” within “churchianity,” but yet ultimately you were willing to see the truth and walk away from all that – especially the future earning potential (speaking fees, books, seminars, videos, etc.) blows my mind (in a good way!) WOW!!! You’re a hero in my book! I hope there will be many more pastors who dare to question the “Christian status quo” and be willing to walk away, but I’m not holding my breath. I highly respect the handful of ex-pastors I have met here at TLS!
The whole thing reminds me of those Scriptures that say (I’m taking the liberty of paraphrasing which may or may not be correct – just how I currently view it): “in the end, even the ‘very elect’ will be deceived (by religion and churchianity) and fall away (from the simplicity of the Gospel of Outrageous Grace.” (I’m not saying that in the end they won’t also be saved (I believe in universalism), but these “supposedly spiritual shepherds” have totally missed MISSED THE MARK, and endangered and abused many innocent “sheep” in the process.
I think their hell will be having their eyes opened and realizing the horrendous damage and abuse they (for the most part)unintentionally perpetrated. And there’s also that Scripture about “he who tries to save his life (by clinging to man’s religious traditions and beliefs), will lose it. But he who loses his life (abandons his religious man-made beliefs and traditions) will find it! HOW TRUE!!
JADED – YOU HAVE LOST YOUR LIFE – AND IN SO DOING – YOU HAVE FOUND IT! As tough as that process has been on you, at least you can honestly say, “I once was lost, but now I see.” I consider that a TRUE CAUSE FOR CELEBRATION!!!
I celebrate with and for you!!
AnonymousI just went on Amazon and found out Brennan Manning’s original Lion and Lamb book has been updated/republished with a new title: The Relentless Tenderness of Jesus
Heya Jo… i think i have a copy around here somewhere that I can send ya… no need to buy it… and thank you for your kind words… i hope to be able to right some of the wrong i have done…
AnonymousI have no doubt that you will!
My theological reading journey began about 7-8 years ago with a gentle shove: “The Jesus I Never Knew” – Phil Yancey.
I kept moving with local authors Mike Frost and Allan Hirsch – “The Shape of Things to Come”
Then I had a deviation into questions around Atheism when Hitchens and Dawkins were looming large. Books like “I Don’t Believe in Atheists” – Chris Hedges and “Atheist delusions” – David Bentley Hart helped.
McLaren’s – Everything Must Change and Claiborne’s – Irresistible Revolution were good.
But then I found a game changer that I will give ‘the most influential book’ title to and that is: “How (Not) To Speak of God” – Peter Rollins which really made sense to me and resonated with my philosophical leanings. I recommend all of Pete’s books but I haven’t read his latest yet.
Pete had a reading list on his blog which led me to further gems like: “The Courage To Be” -Paul Tillich “The Genesis of Desire” – Jean Michael Oughourlian
“Violence” – Slavoj Zizek
Also recommend Pete’s exercise of Atheism for Lent which involves the reading of “Faith and Suspicion” by Merold Westphal. Which can alternatively be followed on my FB page (one chapter a day) for the 40 days running into Easter.
Huddo, where can I link to your facebook page? I’m on facebook…
So many books in the past few years have had significant impact on my life. But to say they were “the most influential” would not be accurate. I can easily say the book that has influenced my thinking and shaped my beliefs the most would have to be the bible. Much like StarryNight though, it was not the bible I read through the first 40 years of my life, rather the bible I have read clearly in the last 10 years. Most Christians will quickly answer “the bible” to this question often times because they know to do otherwise would draw immediate criticism of their lack of sincerity as a Christian. And yet these same Christians are so blind to the irony, to the idolatry the bible represents in their life. Once I was finally able to remove the bible from being a virtual member of the Godhead, as I had literally been taught, the blinders finally began to come off. Studying the bible anew…brought the most radical change to my life without a doubt.
Initially it was only to discredit much of the teaching I found lacking in my religion based faith. Eventually though I came t understand the the bible itself was also a product of that very flawed religious system and I was actually free to see it’s inherent flaws and think for myself. Letting go of my bondage to the bible has made it the most influential book in my life. I believe the single greatest calling we have in life, regardless of belief system, is to love. Rule based morality falls so short of this ideal. Some of the most unloving and hurtful people I know have been obsessed with rule based morality, including even those in my own family. The parts of the bible that I believe represent truth are those parts which present this faithfully. If God inspired anything in the bible (which I believe) surely the teachings on love, primarily by Jesus and John, is that which man has not corrupted.
AnonymousI grew up in an environment of bibliolatry, and the only book was the Bible. I didn’t really start reading until I was 40, and since then have been on a journey. Bell’s Velvet Elvis was huge. Then Jon Brink’s Discovering the God Imagination was a big step for me beyond Calvin and Darby, and reformed theology. More recently Pete Rollins, God Idolatry.
Wayne, I’m following things you post. Thanks! Awesome to have you here on TLS.
AnonymousSidhartha was a powerful story for me.
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