This topic contains 117 replies, has 23 voices, and was last updated by 
-
Posts
-
AnonymousI have to pick ONE?! Actually, I think the worst thing was what started to come out of the pastor’s mouth in the last 2 years. I have no idea what triggered it, but he began to be rather hateful toward a lot of people. Some of the worst things he’s said: Women are not equal to men (in a Mother’s Day sermon); HIV is God’s punishment on the godless and “innocent” people with HIV are just casualties of war; science isn’t real and the reason we have fossil records is because God is tricking us into faith by planting false evidence so we’ll trust Him and not humans; gay people get that way because their fathers are “weak” and their mothers “overbearing” (said in a Sunday sermon on an unrelated topic); and gay sex is the reason it’s immoral because it’s just nasty, dirty, and kinky (using the worst examples of fetishes and then attributing them to gay people, as though straight people don’t do the same things). Oh, and when my husband or I corrected any of this, we were told either we were wrong or we were “misunderstanding” what was said.
amy: yikes!
AnonymousI know, right?! Crazy. And this quite literally started 2 years ago. I can almost pinpoint the date. He started making noises about having to take a “bold” stand. Hubby says this started around the rise of a well-known preacher whose style our pastor liked to imitate.
Umm, probably this email that was sent to us by our group leader who we thought was our friend. It includes lies (the pastor never called me), and was followed with a complete loss of all friendships I had made in this church and area. I love how he starts with and ends with We LOVE you…
Also, in my early 20’s I had a married visiting pastor try to hook up with me and was praying for me (charismatic) in an uncomfortable way. He even went so far as to invite me to visit the church while I was in town. I did not realize what he was doing, but apparently he was having marital problems.
I was also told in my early 20’s that going to college on a wednesday night would be choosing it above God. I was guilted for wanting to pull out of one of the 5 ministries I was in to better myself.
“I have no desire to for you to stay at Mars Hill if he’s calling you elsewhere. If he is calling you somewhere else, we want to bless you and send you out joyfully. If he’s not, then you are endangering your family and hurting the church for your own motives.
Brian, I wrote to you last week in regards to Pam’s message and was shut down. You both have made some bold statements about the Lord’s calling. I wanted to discuss them with you, but you were unwilling. You said in your email that you believe the Spirit is calling you both, and that it has nothing to do with “human logic“. If it is the Spirit’s calling, you should not be intimidated by discussing how he’s called you and what he’s called you to – especially if it is “tested against scripture.”
You contacted Ben, but were unwilling to speak with me. Pam, Pastor X has also left messages trying to get in touch with you which have been unreturned. Why are you hiding?
TBD is not a new church. TBD is isolation from God’s people. You are essential to the body. “The eye cannot say to the hand, ‘I have no need of you,’ nor again the head to the feet, ‘I have no need of you.'” (I Cor. 12:21) You may not be official members of Mars Hill yet, but you are members of the body–being served and serving.
Peter calls our struggle as the body a war (I Peter 2:9-13). Our battle is not against flesh and blood (Eph. 6:12). How will you wage war alone (Ecc. 4:9-10)? Brian, how will lead your family without accountability (Prov. 27:17)?
At Mars Hill you were not merely obtaining a good or service, but you were part of an army of God’s soldiers, living out the gospel in community. Conviction comes in hearing the word of God preached, but confession and repentance come in community.
You fleeing community is not the biggest problem though. The biggest problem is you creating division through your hiding from leadership while calling those in the flock and venting your frustrations. Don’t you find it alarming that you are willing to contact anyone in the community except leadership to discuss this?
Because of this, we are removing you from the CG and The City. You are welcome to come back to CG and Mars Hill anytime. Again, we love you and wish to discuss this in person with you both.
AnonymousBeing told I had a problem that most likely came from my childhood and that I needed counselling as well as being advised to find another church. That was 14 years ago. I’m just getting over it! Leaving the church two years ago has brought some closure and made me happy. I will never trust another church ‘leader’ ever again!
wow pam. passive agressive or WHAT??
I’m glad you’re getting over it Steve. Sometimes it does take time. Good for you!
AnonymousFor me, I suppose, it was watching the entire congregation give over their free-will to the senior pastor. Whether it was about starting a business, an out-reach, who to date, etc.
I experienced a cognitive disconnect when the pastor would commission these half-cocked ideas, giving the ‘chosen’ few’s enterprise an air of legitimacy.
And then there was the day when an acquaintance went to the pastor for marital assistance, her husband was abusive. She was told that her husband was a good man, a leader, and if she left the situation she’d live eternally with god’s wrath/punishment. Further, if she left she should find a new church.
You know, I still get angry thinking about these instances, and the many I did not relate. No, there isn’t one worst case. There are so many instances of that’s-just-not-right. In isolation, some of them are ‘meh’, but string them together and the righteous anger that enveloped me during my last few years at church, is reignited.
Anonymous@Pam: Any advice for us? We’ve been asked to meet with staff at our former church. We both feel called away from that church, but not to another specific church. I have a feeling we’re going to get a lot of those same things thrown at us, about how we’re hurting our family by not going directly someplace else. And we already know we can’t fully disclose our real reasons for leaving, because they will (mostly) fall on deaf ears. Our church isn’t an official affiliate of Mars Hill, but they are definitely “Mars Hill Lite” and taking their cues from that church (one of the reasons we left).
As an associate pastor I did not have a full day off for years: youth, music, teaching at the Christian school, driving bus, attending every meeting. I had something to do every day of the week. I was making $14 thousand a year in Alaska for years working night and day. According to the pastor I needed to learn to “live by faith.” When I asked Kevin, the pastor, if there was a way to get some relief he got pretty angry and told me to get back to work. That was the last straw.
wow jeff. are you rested now?
Yes, thanks… I’m definitely more rested. I went to grad school right out of the church work so life kept going pretty fast. I am getting close to the end of that so I feel way better. There is a lot more space in my life. The main thing is that I get to be closer to who I really am at the core than ever before.
6 @Amy:
Yes! Forgive me, I am computerless right now so I am posting from my phone.
I can’t link from it
On the marshillrefuge.blogspot.com site, search for the words “star chamber”.
it should bring up an article that will be helpful. Also, there is a page on my blog call red flags and smart moves, an analysis by the ladies at the wartburg watch on how we handled our situation.
You know though, you don’t have to submit to these meetings. The authority structure only works if you play by their rules. After those emails they kept insisting on “walking us” to our new church and sending us off with their blessing, but we felt they wanted to know so they could contact the new church or decide dor us if it was theologically approved by them. Brian informed the pastor that he was a grown man and he did not need to have his hand held. Thanks but no thanks.
If this church is into the whole heirarchy thing and issues church discipline and shunning letters, I would consider whether you want to subject yourselves to it. Church discipline follows you to your next church and then you start with a black mark, so to speak.
I think all the stories on more stories would be helpful as well but especially Andrew’s story.
I hope this helps. I personally would probably decline, but if I did choose to go I would bring a trusted friend that has no affiliation with that church. If they do they may turn on you or end up with their own problems.
In my opinion, our experience was that they were trying to maintain control of us and when they felt it slipping they put more pressure to get us face to face. They wanted us to go to community group to sit on the hot seat…they wanted us to meet over and over. There is no reason they cannot ask their questions via email or over the phone. Also, did you sign a membership covenant?
What is the point of the meeting? Are they looking to reconcile? Do they want to question you? Ask what they hope to accomplish! Let me know what you decide!thanks Pam. great advice!
Anonymous@Pam: I will check out what you’ve suggested. The reason we agreed to meet is that we want to go out on our terms. In fact, we are currently not under any “discipline” because we chose to get a jump on it before leadership came after us. (Well, me specifically, for blogging about “divisive” issues and possibly for “doctrinal error.”) What I fear is being hounded for an answer about what church we are going to be attending and being told we are “hurting” our children by not taking them somewhere new right away. We’ve heard the whole “sheep without a shepherd” thing a thousand times. I didn’t realize that asking us for our new church is an attempt to follow us with a black mark. I’ll let you know what happens, the meeting is next Sunday.
Oh my gosh… I guess the one horror story I have is my two best friends (who I met before I converted) had premarital sex and they were forced to stand in front of the congregation and confess. It was awful to watch. Moreover they got “disciplined”. Where is the grace in that?
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.