This topic contains 117 replies, has 23 voices, and was last updated by 
-
Posts
-
AnonymousOkay…I just checked out the Chick tracts link. OMG. That’s not a joke??? I remember getting a couple of them (one had a soldier who died and went to Hell, I think, and the other was about a girl with herpes–no lie). Were they all as sick as the one with the kid being told his uncle was BURNING FOREVER?
AnonymousI remember a guy at my high school who carried around a briefcase full of those Chick tracts. He was very serious about trying to get his fellow students saved!
I used to take a bible to high school that had a red cover, made to look like The Communist Manifesto. argh!
-
This reply was modified 2 years, 1 month ago by
David Hayward.
AnonymousAMEN to what you said about why you do a lot of talking about Eve Ronna!
Did you ever read John and Stacey Eldridge’s book titled Captivating. They had some really good things to say about women being the pinnacle of Creation. However not one of my friends who did the study guide with me could ever reach a point where any of us felt that we were, are, or ever will be captivating.
If you or anyone else here has read that book what did you think of it?
AnonymousYou probably do not want to get me started on this…as my rant will continue for far, too long. Suffice it to say, there are some gender dynamics present in Eldridge theology that makes it hard for me to swallow and, in many ways, continues to perpetuate the very reason you don’t feel captivating. Twisty and crazy-making, to be sure.
Here’s the thing: you are captivating. Forget what John & Stacy said. Let’s go back to God in the Garden and work with this: “It is good.” Rinse and repeat.
And of course, as you might imagine, I’m preaching to the choir on all this.
AnonymousDavid – I am pretty sure all of us ex-church people have said or done things we now regret in retrospect and feel embarrassed about! I know I have.
Jo: I could tell stories for a loooooong time. Makes a Frank Peretti novel seem like reality.
Ronna, rant away!
and David, Frank Peretti is a terrible writer…bleck
AnonymousRonna – focusing on “it is good” sounds great to me!
I welcome you ranting about Eldredge theology if you want to. It would be helpful for me to hear what you consider is wrong theology/teaching regarding what John & Stacey write – cuz I am just starting the process of sorting out what to keep and what to throw away. It helps to hear various viewpoints. Anyone else that wants to weigh in on this, please do.
AnonymousReader’s Digest Condensed Version, Jo? John ascribes to a pretty traditional understanding of gender roles based on his interpretation of Genesis 1-3. This assumes that gender roles are actually inherent in that text (which I think is open for discussion). But more, that the idea of man has “head” and woman as “submissive” (even in the best and most perfect of scenarios) becomes problematic…and has been throughout time. It’s a subtle point of distinction, but when, in even the slightest of ways, we see women as “less than” (not to mention responsible for the entire Fall of humanity because of the whole fruit-debacle), it gets in the water and we cannot be free of it.
This is not to say that there are not relationships/places in which women are honored. Of course there are. But more, we have thousands of years of history in which such has not been the case…and only continues. When I look at issues like sexual trafficking and the objectification of women, I know it to be far more complex than just this, but still: our major philosophies of thought have been based on those earliest of understandings about God (which was also based on Genesis 1-3). And philosophy leads to politics which leads to power which leads to every.single.thing.that.follows.
An example of this might be seen in the thread that was started here on the forum about Mark Driscoll and Esther. There is a classic – and excruciating – example of a theological lens that sees women as not only “less than,” but made to see/feel that their choices/actions/forced-behaviors are sinful and shameful, as well.
This entire issue makes me out-of-my-mind crazy exactly because it is so insipid, so subtle, and therefore, so easy to dismiss. And…it’s the conversation I have all the time. It matters. For women. For men. For the church. For our world. No small thing…
Now – all this said, I’d hardly hold John Eldredge responsible for all of this. (Mark Driscoll, maybe.) He’s perpetuating a predominant system of thought. It just happens to be one that I desperately and passionately want changed. (No surprise there, huh?)
Thanks Ronna! Keep it coming! I’m with Jo on this one… curious as ever to hear/read more of your thoughts on this topic.
Glad Ronna’s here for this. It’s her passion. Thanks!
Okay, for me the worst was getting fired when I hadn’t done anything wrong other than not help the Sr. Pastor fulfill his vision for numbers. It sent me into depression.
But here is the silver lining – I am out! I may never have got out if I hadn’t been tossed out. I am grateful. As for the depression, it has made me a much better pastor. Now instead of trying to fix people I am just happy to journey alongside them.
What is harder to get over is the betrayal, especially by the staff who were silent and didn’t stand up for me, including my brother. Had the shoe been on the other foot I would have gone to war. It is unfair to judge him by “What Would Chad Do” yet it still stings from being disposable because I didn’t quite fit the vision.
But this next part of what I share may be the most important thing I can contribute. It is very, very hard for me to point my fingers back at the organized church without seeing my fingerprints all over it. I helped create the system that drove me out. I helped shelter the pastor from feedback so he could pursue his vision. I created the monster and it turned and fed on me. I would love it if it was just other peoples’ fault, but I am very much the one to blame. There are carcasses in my path that I never stood up for or stopped the train for. There is vision that I pursued over other people and friends. I was the problem.
I totally identified with what you said Chad. I feel very implicated in what happened. However, I think it is important to separate what I did from what they did. I think, even though I was complicit, that I was seriously wronged and abused. In fact, my innocence was taken advantage of. You understand?
-
This reply was modified 2 years, 1 month ago by
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.