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Danielle 4 months, 3 weeks ago.
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‘Gloom & doom’ is the general term I give to growing up under the paradigm of “Jesus is coming soon/we’re going to hell in a handbasket/the end times are nigh/politically the world is stuffed.” It’s a mixture of political, economic and spiritual disastery. I grew up under this and though I rejected it when I could recognise it, the psychological consequences still made their mark. I think I went into shut down. Hopes nil. Dreams nil. One bible verse that put fear into me when I was young was Matthew 24, and the bit that stuck was verse 19, “How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers!” I think this is one of the reasons I chose not to have children – this fear of being this vulnerable. I made no plans for the future ‘as it was all going to fold up soon’. I remember being roundly jammed by a visiting Christian nutcake who proclaimed at me “without a vision the people will perish” – basically trying to shame me into having a clue about my future destination in life (no such luck). My first pay packet ever went into buying survival gear. I cringe thinking about this now, but it was what it was. I can only watch “Doomsday Preppers” for a short time, it’s just too much. It wasn’t that bad at home, but I know the thinking behind it. Similarly, watching the Mel Gibson & Julia Roberts movie “Conspiracy Theory”, I felt right at home. Seen it before.
Anyhow, I survived, am still here, haven’t had 666 tattooed on me yet lol.
Has anyone else had similar experiences, and how do you embrace them now? I like to be open-minded but sceptical and be aware of world trends and movements. But I’m not a joiner – I want all the information but I don’t want to participate. I used to think that I was raised anti-establishment and non-conformist but now I think I’m just a product of fear, one that I’ve perpetuated. So I don’t join, I don’t fit in, I don’t make choices, and I definitely don’t want to play at the adults table. I’ve opted out and become a rejectionist. It’s not a comfortable spot to be, and I’m busily engaged in displaying the opposite persona which fools most people I think. But there comes a time when living the lie isn’t able to be perpetuated any longer, and you grow tired at stumbling around. That’s where I’m at.
So, this was my rant about gloom and doom and I turned it into all about me. Sorry ‘bout that. So I hand it over to you for your thoughts on Revelation, the end-times and anything post, pre or what’s the other one’s name?-
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Helene.
Hi Helene, much of what you said reminds me of my past. I was about 13 when I began reading the bible on my own. I was a bit of a loner so in those early years I did not talk things out with anyone in a personal way. I would listen to bible programs on the radio. One was The World Tomorrow with Garner Ted Armstrong (Worlwide Church of God). That really set me on the path of doom and gloom and biblical literalism. At the time the Armstrongs’ were hinting that the end would be around 1975. I also had a family member who was JW and they too had ideas that Armageddon was just around the corner. I gave up a lot of the optimism of youth, became introverted and did not advance very far in education, why should I? The end was coming soon! For the next 40 plus years I held to a dismal ‘end of the world’ scenario that has probably been feeding depressive feelings that countered any great hope of the Second Coming. Anyway, seems like a lot of waste of energy and direction.
I totally identify with all that. I was raised completely terrified of Jesus returning or the apocalypse.
I remember as a young teenager being saddened by the FACT that Jesus was probably going to return before I had the chance to get married and have sex. LOL
These days my apocalyptic type thinking has nothing to do with bible prophecy and everything to do with what I fear is an impending economic collapse in the US. I do feel our entitlement minded society coupled with our massive deficit spending federal government is a sure fire recipe for disaster. But this is based on pure economics…not some boogey man hysteria I was taught in Sunday School.
Anyhow, I survived, am still here, haven’t had 666 tattooed on me yet lol.
@Helene I love that…and me, too! Just a few short years ago, I was filled with terror at the thought of maybe unknowingly having the “mark of the beast” somehow. I fell prey to a lot of the really irrational propaganda being promoted by religious leaders and the like…and I ALMOST invested like 2 grand
(I didn’t and still don’t have) in freeze dried food for a years’ supply for my family. Today, I am still thinking of trying to have at least a month or so of backup food, but not for any reason other than I believe it’s a wise thing to do these days. Like @Gary I am very concerned about the economic shape the U.S. is in (along with many other countries that are all tied into a massive yarn knot) and when the whole thing unravels I don’t want to be totally helpless. Sadly I have very little resources to begin preparing for anything though, which does at times make me anxious. I am trying to take it one day at a time and above all I still do HOPE for the future! I have learned that hope is just not worth giving up, until there’s no more viable reason to hope (and sometimes even then I have still hoped, as in the case of my youngest daughter who was once very close to death and docs gave up on her).And that is what we could never really do when we were all force fed the doom and gloom! We could never really, truly hope (except in God, and I didn’t ever know how to really do that) I think there is something to that. Even people I see now who are not religiously affiliated at all, and some never have been, are very much hopeless based on the stats they read and facts they are counting about whatever situation. I believe there must be a balance between being aware and remaining hopeful, even in dire circumstances. It’s good for you and all those around you!
I think I could type half the day with my thoughts on this subject..lol..but I won’t.
Hugh – I really relate. ‘Giving up the optimism of youth’ – that’s it. I’m not angry any more, but yes, I was robbed. Yes to the depression too. I’ve started my education in my late 30’s, and sometimes I’m despairing that I feel so far behind. One of my dear lecturers said to me this year when I expressed my frustrations, ‘Helene, the past is the past, your time starts now’. He didn’t know how liberating those words are to me and how I cling to them. If he’s not judging me on doing crappy admin jobs for the last twenty years, then it’s time I stopped doing the same.
Moxie on being hopeful – YES ! I believed once for someone who had non-Hodgkins lymphoma that they would survive, and when they didn’t I felt a fool. But it was put to me that I believed for them when no one else did, not even his family. Some may say it was irrational, but I was genuinely hopeful for his recovery.
And this: ” I believe there must be a balance between being aware and remaining hopeful, even in dire circumstances.” Moxie & Gary I hear you on the dire economic circumstances. I think we may not be too far behind. But I am trying instead not to fear it, but be prepared in an unextreme fashion ! Hence my education push, etc. There’s a lot of good skills in “Earth Garden” and “Grass Roots” magazines that I wouldn’t dismiss too readily. It’s all practical stuff. And it has never not made sense to grow veggies and herbs when you can for economic and taste reasons, etc.
It does make me wonder how much fear is prevalent in the ‘bible belt’ – and also how much unguarded, abundant optimism exists. Probably somewhere in-between, and the balance you speak about Moxie, is the way to go.
Anonymous
I jokingly refer to myself as a pan-millenialist , meaning I believe it will all “pan out” in the end – ha! Actually I have NO CLUE what is going to happen in the end!
I was raised with “end times theology” that hoped we would be raptured out before the really heavy-duty shit hit the fan, but there was a good possibility we might have to go through at least part of “the Great Tribulation”, if not all of it. But I never really agonized over it like some of you.
Since leaving the church and educating myself on the source and pitfalls of traditional Evangelical theology, I read one viewpoint I had never heard before, which said the book of Revelation was actually describing events pertinent to the early Christians suffering under Roman dictatorship. That makes more sense to me than all this Pop-Culture Christian “Rapture/Left Behind” crap. But again, who knows? Who cares??
I strongly believe that in the end God/Love wins, and that no one will be going to hell. Therefore, why would God need to “test” people (via the “Tribulation”) to see if they would remain faithful to him to the bitter end? That makes no sense to me now.
Gary & Moxie & Helene – I do share your concern about an impending economic collapse in the U.S. because of the massive deficit government has racked up. I just don’t see how things can go on much longer when government leaders REFUSE to STOP RUN-AWAY SPENDING! At some point it is all going to come crashing down, and when it does, it ain’t gonna be pretty.
When I was watching people rioting in the streets in Greece because their government had to cut some of their entitlements, I honestly thought, that same thing will eventually happen here in the U.S. I don’t remember the exact percentage, but I think we are rapidly approaching 50% of the U.S. population receiving some kind of entitlement money. And when you try to take away something people are used to getting, they are going to get very angry. That said, I try to live one day at a time and not think too much about that kind of “doom and gloom.” I watch a lot less TV news than I used to.
I do keep emergency food, H2O and camping supplies around mostly in case of earthquake because I live in Southern California. (They have been telling us for probably the last 30 years that we are overdue for the “big one” – but it hasn’t happened yet.)
I’ve thought about stocking up on a lot more emergency supplies, but I decided not to. I figure if I have a huge stash of food and supplies, once people find out, they won’t think twice about stealing if or killing me to get to it, and (even though I have a gun), I don’t think I’m willing to shoot anyone. If they want it that badly, they can have it.
Jo – I think there’s a Far Side cartoon about the preppers who stocked up on canned everything – and forgot the can opener. Snort !!!!
My wise old dad (when he wasn’t imbuing us with the fear of impending collapse) does have a good take I think on how to prepare for the future. He thinks the best thing you can do is to cultivate good relationships. People you can rely on and trust. I think it’s sound advice, doom or no doom.
AnonymousThat’s funny Helene! I’m pretty sure I do have a can opener in my emergency food stock. But who knows what else I may have forgotten????
Oh yes. Anyone remember “A Thief in the Night” and “A Distant Thunder”, the end times movies of the ’70s? I was a very little girl when I saw those, and they scared the crap out of me. Then I married a man who was a post-trib believer and started to think I’d be going through it.
Now I don’t know what to think, and don’t give it much thought. I get more concerned with the here and now of economics and damage being done to food supplies and other environmental stuff that our children will inherit.
Sometimes though, when I hear something that reminds me of supposed events to come, and it looks like it might be happening as we were told, I still get a chill of fear.
I was taught that the time of the end was going to be worse for Christians than I could even imagine and if my character was not perfected before the close of probation I would not be able to stand against this terrible persecution. And almost every church service the pastor or someone speaking would point out how horrible the world was and how it was just getting more and more sinful. This was a sure sign of the end times. Typically religion is often sustained by ignorance and myth.
From research done by a Dr. Steven Pinker we actually live in the least violent times of known history. If we look at the actual evidence violence has been decreasing since ancient times. If you look at the times before the enlightenment you have instances where your chance of death from violence for a male was as high as 60%. The tipping point in the decrease in violence occurred after the enlightenment in the 16th century. Today your chances of violent death is down to 2%. There has been a considerable decrease in death from war even from the 1950s.
If you want to look at the specifics this excellent lecture at TED by Steven Pinker reveals a more accurate view.
Wow, Richard….fabulous resource…thanx!
AnonymousThanks @richard I too can’t believe how much religion has perpetuated fictional facts. Gloom and doom/ the kids these days/ etc. All of it perpetuates the fear that drives us to run to religion.
AnonymousRichard – I was pretty much taught the same things you were regarding the end times. Lots of fear tactics. They especially love to use that verse about “even the very elect will fall away” during the end times.
That was an interesting TED talk – especially the statistics that show we have far less violence today than in previous centuries. Thanks!
Ashley – AMEN!
I actually remember a friend of mine telling me all about the Revelation and “what it meant” when I was just a young teen. It was very influential in me getting “saved”.
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