what does jesus mean to you?

[David HaywardKeymaster]

We have a wide diversity of people on TLS, from atheists to believers. Some might believe that the man Jesus didn’t even exist but is a construct of mythologies popular in that area and era. Some might believe he was a wise teacher. Some might believe he was a prophet from God. Some might believe he was God. Whatever.

What does Jesus mean to you now?

[RevOxleyParticipant]

Your first example more or less describe my view.

I don’t know that Y’shua ever existed – I don’t know that a man named Emmanuel was actually a historical figure at all and I’ve scoured ancient texts in search of him to come up with absolutely nothing. So, I don’t believe He did… I think if He did then there would have been  a great historical record of it that didn’t just pop up 70+ years after his alleged death and I honestly think that serious inquiry into the validity of Christianity should start at validating the existence of the man that it is derived from.

There is a chance though, that he did exist – but that the great things attributed to him were largely misrepresented by lore and eventually the gospels. If this is the case I’m still not sure that this means that Jesus existed…I mean…not THE Jesus…just some guy not worthy of even a jot or tittle in the annals of reliable historicity.

 

But, what of the character of the legend?

I think there is a lot to learn from Jesus, from some of his sermons – but there are also some things that we could do without. It’s a tumultuous story at best and I don’t think any of the moral lessons he allegedly provided are unique.

[cowboyjunkeyParticipant]

For me I just can’t discount his words and actions. I have felt the friend-like closeness in the past but its been gone for a while.

[WadeParticipant]

I’m honestly not sure anymore.

I discovered a lot in the last few months about the provenance of the Old Testament and aspects of the history of Israel that are never apparent in there. This is part of the reason I now call the God of the Old Testament “Yahweh”. I don’t know how separate he is from Jeshua/Jesus. but I suspect this isn’t a simple answer.

I also discovered a book called Jesus Through Pagan Eyes. This was a revelation in how people raised in determinedly non-Christian Western faiths view him. And I had found The Wrong Messiah some months earlier, which was a retelling of the Gospel story from a modern story-tellers point-of-view – something most Christians fail to realize the first four books of the New Testament do not do. And most recently I’ve located a copy of The Gospel Of Thomas.

I think the historical figure of Jesus would be greatly saddened by what mankind has built and has done down through the centuries “in his name”. And rather horrified. Of the historical Jesus, I see a figure who was determinedly against the systematic and systemic oppression of the downtrodden that his own religion espoused. And he did it by turning sensibilities upside down from the bottom up. He treated women as humans. He accepted everyone as they came. There was a basic “meet their needs first” approach to all his teachings.

One thing I am sure on, though is that I disagree with some of Paul’s later teachings – and this is another thing our modern church has forgotten to teach: Paul developed his teachings over time. The earliest ones are radical and challenging, much like Jesus’ but the later ones import some very conservative Jewish thinking. And this was not helped by the fact that almost none of the scholars that followed Paul spoke Greek as their native language nor were raised as Jews.

I’m still coming to terms with all of Jesus’ teachings and how I think they should work in the real world. Currently, I much prefer the stories of what he did. Nicodemus. The Samaritan woman at the well. The woman caught in adultery. The woman who washed his feet with her tears…

Wade.

 

[Jeni AnandaParticipant]

Have you ever met someone whom you felt like you’ve known them forever? A feeling of deja vu when they ‘get’ every inflection and private joke? Someone who you just ‘click’ with? I know this sounds so sappy and romantically looney- but that’s how it was for me when I met Jesus. I thought He didn’t exist, I thought He was just a curse word- but one day, He showed up in my hung over state.  He knew all of my dark secrets, things I wont even admit to myself. And He loved me through and through. Still does 9 years later. It breaks me.  He injects hope & joy into me like a drug. It all sounds so dramatic and fantastical- but as crazy as it is, I believe the Creator of the Universe actually talks to me. He spoke the sun into  existence with His lips and kisses my cheek with those same lips.
Jesus- I believe is human. But also divine. I believe that God emptied Himself (gave Himself amnesia- kind of) and was born a man. He didn’t remember creating anything. He lived by faith. I wrote a note about it- I used to believe that God cheated a little, which I was ok with- since it was such an important mission- that in the wilderness- Jesus thought (about the devil) “Ok, you can quit it now, I remember creating you… I changed your diapers- for crying out loud..” j/k
But then, I realized that Jesus went through everything we do (or so I believe.) See, since I met Him, I never doubted that He actually lived 2,000+ years ago.  It wasn’t the empty tomb that convinced the disciples of His resurrection. It was HIM- resurrected; eating with them, laughing with them, letting them touch His wounds. And I think it’s the same 2,000+ years later.
I can’t imagine just going on the voice of God, or your mom, or the prophet lady- with confidence to say:
“I’m the Messiah.”
“I’m God in the flesh.”
Whew! What a mind ..um.. screw… I can picture the devil saying: “Holy sh*t! If you’re wrong about this, buddy- that’s blasphemy of the worst kind! Even I’D pity you!!”
But I believe He lived on faith. Trusting that small inner voice. Leaning into the flow of Life. Having compassion when you know it might get you killed & everyone will think you’re crazy…
I could talk forever about Jesus, obviously… *sheepish grin*

Oh, and I think in Revelations when John is crying b/c no one is worthy to open the seal- I think that’s because God set up humans to be His right-hand man/women, so to speak- and no one was worthy to open the darn thing… but wait!! There’s Jesus- standing in for all of mankind, redeeming us to our position at the right hand of the Father. We can be the image of God on earth, because of Jesus.  We can say: “When you look at me, you can see the Father.” I hope I didn’t open too many arguements here- I’m just posting my opinion- and how I think of things…

[David HaywardKeymaster]

@jeniAnanda there’s no need to fear about opening an argument. It’s obvious that there is a wide range of opinions on what Jesus means to us now.

For me, I’ve lost a lot of the anthropomorphic associations with Jesus, suspecting that there was such a man, but that his life became THE metaphor for understanding Reality.

[GaryParticipant]

From what I have read, the number of scholars (both religious and secular) who believe the person of Jesus never existed is deeply in the minority.  Several non-biblical texts seem to point to a historical figure.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

The question I think most of us grapple with is; what is the significance of Jesus and how does that affect our lives?  Perhaps the best answer I could come up with is…Stay tuned for one day I believe all will be revealed.

[Anonymous]

@JeniAnanda the Topic was “What does Jesus mean to you?”  There is NO WRONG ANSWER. Thanks for sharing what he is to you.  I remember a time in the not so distant past that I felt very similar to you about him.

For me however, Jesus has transformed over the years in my own understanding.  When I was a teenager, he was the one who accepted me when I was unacceptable to everyone else (in my opinion).  He got me through the worst of times.  As a young adult he was my excuse for being an asshole.  I could run around and do whatever the hell I wanted with little regard to anyone else, and then go to him and get all cleaned up and feel like I was a new person, so I could go out and be an asshole again.

When I was a little older he was my employer.  An unrelenting task-master who demanded I work long hours in service to him as a minister, pastor, etc, with little regard to myself or my family’s welfare. Likewise he demanded I be perfect (or holy if you will) all the time, even when I did not feel like it.  Then I started to see him differently some time around 2004.  It all started by reading a book by Dallas Willard, who was able to take the words of the Sermon on the Mount and put them in terms I could understand.

He put them in ways that I could actually manage without pretending.  That book turned my world upside down and I began to respect this Jesus of the Bible — the originator of those words.  Then I began to re-examine everything he said from then on.  And it was like a sort of light turned on for me.   After that things like the resurrection, the crucifixion and atonement and all that other stuff that he gets credit for, was not so important to me.

What was important was a sort of goodness that seemed achievable all of a sudden.  That coupled with authenticity and practicality was the beginnings of my new understanding of who Jesus was to me.  I can’t tell you if he was a real person, or if he is god and a man, or if he matches any of our modern  theologies of who God should be.  What I do know is that there is a sort of magic in the words associated with him.  A sort of thing that transcends time and culture and everything else that makes us different.  I love him.  

[David HaywardKeymaster]

Ya, when it comes to our opinion and thoughts or beliefs in a forum such as this, there is no wrong answer. thanks @john

[starfielderParticipant]

I often wonder about the question Jesus asked, “Who do you say I am?”   I like that Jesus. The one that doesn’t give pat answers. The one who isn’t patronizing. My thoughts and beliefs about who Jesus is have changed over time. Some of the things I held tightly I simply don’t care about anymore. But, when I have a conversation with the holy, many times it’s Jesus the Christ. I don’t call him Jesus anymore. But I know that is who I am talking to.  I know that whatever it was or is to have a connection with the holy mystery has given me the ability to forgive the unforgivable. It has enabled me to be authentic. When I ask the question “Where are you?” I hear silence. But I am comforted by this because the sunlight is silent too.

———————————

SILENT
I have confidence because
The SUNLIGHT is SILENT
beyond words
my courage is here
in this sunlight as silent
and here you are – alive alive
My courage comes humbly
reaching towards daybreak
and here you are – alive alive
a place beyond words
reaching daybreak as
The SUNLIGHT is SILENT

[Anonymous]

When I left the church I thought it was Jesus who opened the door for me to be free from it.  I couldn’t see Jesus in Churches and I wanted to see more of HIM and HE knew it.  I am almost envious of the peeps like JeneAnanda , I love her description.  I see Jesus as the Savior and my greatest teacher/example.  I am always on the lookout for people who might act as gracefully  or lovingly as I imagine Jesus would. I desperately want to learn that graceful, peaceful way of existing.  I see and think of Jesus as the Prince of Peace and I believe that is supposed to be my hope and my goal.  I see Jesus as the direction for me to go to find that peacefulness.  I feel like I am constantly walking towards or hoping for Jesus.  I believe my level of self-esteem must be too low for my mind to imagine the possibilities and images that JeneAnanda relates.  I feel like I am constantly growing in my walk of faith, though. I feel like I am able to catch glimpses of Jesus in others finally by this old age and that gives me encouragement to continue.  I imagine I will continue to walk this old life right out and into the arms of Jesus, finally feeling HIS approval and affection. At least part of my brain keeps replaying that, I can’t stop it, lol.   I believe my desire to grow more Christlike is my number one spiritually redeeming focus.  Jesus and talking about Jesus gets me giddy and like I said, reading testimonies like JeneAnanda’s, really make my day, week, month… Jesus and how we relate to HIM is our most personal faith choice, I believe.

[RichardParticipant]

I don’t really think that I connected with Jesus even when I was a believer.  That’s because all the songs about Jesus seemed a little too romantic for my taste.  My friends that are men and that I connect with come from a life experience that doesn’t put up with any bullshit.  While Jesus was empathetic, I just didn’t connect with that whole passive let them crucify me thing.  I liked the clever parables he told and the defense of the weak.

I think he was at his best when he was turning over the money tables and telling the priests and money changers to get the fuck out his father’s house.  That’s a Jesus I can relate to.

What I observe is that people create a Jesus in their own idealized image.  The Jesus they worship is the one that agrees with their idealized value system.  I much prefer to simply go directly to my value system.  I think it may help to separate the self into different parts to allow one to have an internal conversation.  Jesus did say the kingdom of god was within.

[AmyParticipant]

Sometimes, I think I know what I believe, but mostly I just feel uncertain.  I think I’m somewhere between “Jesus had a lot of really cool things to say, and some mysterious ones, and I’d like to live more by that–especially when it comes to justice” and “There is something powerful–maybe even divine–about Jesus; maybe he really did defeat death, at least in the sense that the fear of it has no power.”  Sometimes, I feel like maybe I’m done with everything I learned about Jesus in churches.  But then I read a blog post by one of my favorite writers and I think, “I see Jesus in him.”  Or I witness my son’s baptism and it feels holy and right.  The only thing I’m certain of is that Jesus isn’t my ticket out of hell or the co-dependent second parent protecting me from my abusive Father God.

I think it’s not Jesus that I’m unsure about; it’s Jesusist culture that I could live without.

[Peter StanleyParticipant]

I rejected the teaching of the trinity when I was 13. After I was married I was a very active member of the Anglican Church but still questioned the trinity. Some 15 years later I became a member of a Sabbath keeping church that positively rejected the teachings of the trinity (as well as Christmas and Easter as pagan festivals). Then in 2007 I read ‘The Shack’ and found myself thinking, “Why has it taken 57 years for someone to give me a picture of the trinity that begins to make sense?”.

Last year Bob Greaves – The Unconventional Pastor – writing about what he really believed, said that he did not understand the trinity and went on to say that he usually relates to God as a whole, making little distinction between Father, Son and Holy Spirit. He then suggested that Jesus did not save us from an angry Father God, but rather saved us from our own delusions of an angry God. I could go on.

Amy said, “The only thing I’m certain of is that Jesus isn’t my ticket out of hell or the co-dependent second parent protecting me from my abusive Father God”. I agree with that completely. But I would also have to agree with Richard when he said, “I don’t really think that I connected with Jesus even when I was a believer”. For me Jesus wasn’t someone to be worshipped, but someone who pointed to Father. I can echo what Amy said, “I’m done with everything I learned about Jesus in churches”.

That’s a very incomplete answer to an important question – something I have been seriously thinking about for about 55 years.

[David HaywardKeymaster]

Wow what a diversity of intelligent thought! All inclusive. All included.

[Author]

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