This topic contains 39 replies, has 14 voices, and was last updated by 
Gary 1 year, 7 months ago.
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AnonymousI’m a little late to the conversation, but I’ll throw my two cents in here. I think the “spectrum” explanation is a good one. And I agree that people fall in love with other people (regardless of gender) for all kinds of reasons (not just sexual orientation.)
Taking a few pages from my own life…I was raised and indoctrinated in Evangelical churches which believed homosexuality is “an abomination to God.” I have always considered myself a heterosexual because I am physically attracted to men, and I have never been physically attracted to women.
However, 35 years ago, I got involved in a two-year lesbian relationship that my Christian roommate initiated (at a Christian college – horror of horrors!) I ended it after two years because I just couldn’t live any longer with the crushing guilt and shame (plus having to keep up pretenses.) I have never, before or since, been through such excruciating emotional pain as when I ended that relationship. It wasn’t because I really wanted to, it was because I felt I HAD to either walk away, or I was going to burn in hell!
Two years later, I fell in love with and married my husband. Unfortunately he had a horrible temper, was verbally and emotionally abusive, was not a giver – only a taker, very demanding, etc. We were married for 18 years, and yet in all those years I NEVER experienced ANY kind of emotional intimacy with him. In fact, when I finally divorced him, the pain was miniscule (more like relief to no longer have to endure his abuse!) compared to the gut-wrenching pain I felt when I ended my 2 yr. lesbian relationship 20 years earlier! So what does that mean??? Especially since to this day I am still only physically attracted to men! Therefore I consider myself a heterosexual.
I have always believed that the main reason I was so vulnerable to my roommate’s romantic advances was because I was so starved for emotional intimacy. For me it was never about the sex (although I can’t say I didn’t enjoy it) – it was way more about the emotional intimacy. My whole life I have been starved for a mother’s unconditional love because I never had a close relationship to my mother. And I also attributed that lesbian relationship to the fact that I simply do not trust men (because my “preacher-father” betrayed my trust by sexually abusing me as a child. That was something I managed to block out of my memory until I had been married for about 8 years.)
Now I no longer believe homosexuality is a sin and I am extremely supportive of LGBT people. I have one lesbian friend that I’ve had a friendship (nothing more) with for years. In fact, she has been celebate for many years because she believes a gay lifestyle is not compatible with her Christian faith. Yet she has been depressed for years and has been on every anti-depressant known to man and none of them help. One day she confided to me the reason she is so depressed is because her spiritual beliefs do not allow her to be who she is and to pursue a loving, lesbian relationship. I think that is so sad and so wrong! I have been encouraging her to re-evaluate her “Christian beliefs” and I even went on line and found a local gay-friendly church for her to start going to. I want her to find someone she can love and share her life with so she can be happy! (btw – I am not physically or emotionally attracted to her in any way, so that person would not be me.)
Lately I find myself wondering IF (and that’s a VERY HUGE IF!), I ever allowed myself to be in another lesbian relationship, would that be wrong in the sense that I am not being true to who I really am since I have a heterosexual orientation??? If I have trust issues with men, then maybe I should just work on those until I am comfortable enough to date men. But in all honestly, I don’t even want to go down that road. I have a “broken picker” when it comes to men!
But that is a moot point since I don’t have a burning desire to be in a gay relationship. Plus my entire family believes homosexuality is a sin and I am not willing to jeopardize my relationship with my son & his wife, my grandson, or my brother and his family. Plus I have a chronic illness with limited physical energy, so I am content remaining single and avoiding the whole dating scene with men or women. Just thought I could add a unique angle to this whole discussion.
fascinating discussion guys! i would love to hear @amy ‘s take on this.
AnonymousI will share my story and hope it helps you sort things out a bit more. I have a similar situation to the original post,except I am “the friend”
I was raised evangelical almost fundy my entire life. I was married at 18 to the first guy who would have me. Had 2 kids, got divorced after 7 years. Jumped straight into a relationship/affair with my now husband of 15 years. Its been a fabulous/rough/emotional/loving/hurtful/passionate 15 years. I wouldn’t trade it for anything, ever.
Last year, I joined my husband on a business trip. We ended up in a conversation that changed everything. We decided to take a very frank and open look at our marriage and see what we wanted to do. We left EVERY option on the table and took them off 1 by 1 as we decided what we both wanted. We ended up “choosing” each other all over again. It’s been the best 6 months of our lives.
Because of that conversation and trust that was built, I made a comment about a fantasy with another woman that I have had. This turned into another longer conversation where I was finally able to admit to myself and to my husband that I was definitely bi-sexual. We had hours and hours and months of conversation where I was allowed by him to question everything and process my upbringing. I can to realize I had repressed almost all of my sexual feelings for 40 years. I was afraid of being too sexy with my husband, so sex wasn’t always that “fun”. There was so much that I was able to process, figure out, decide who I was as a person and who I was attracted to and what turned me on – for the FIRST time ever. I had never had that opportunity before because of being in the church!
Fast forward 6 months – I am in therapy working on all this. I am bi-sexual and prefer women. If my husband died, I would probably live a lesbian lifestyle, its what I am attracted to. My husband got lucky and snagged me up before I realized I prefer women, lol. Our relationship has NEVER been better. We are so in love it nauseates me :). He loves me for who I am, completely. I am healing…
I have had 1 sexual encounter with a woman, enjoyed it. But from now on, whatever we decide to do will be together…always.It’s complicated, its messy, but I was so blessed with a husband who truly loves me, loves all of me and wants the best for me. He is truly the best thing that has ever happened to me.
KimT, Wow! What a great story. Thank you for sharing. Sounds life giving!
Wow. I don’t think I have a whole lot to add here. For a little background, my sister is gay (that is the term she uses for herself, though some women prefer to be called lesbians). She is what is usually called “butch,” meaning she presents as a woman who appears what our culture might call “masculine”–no dresses or makeup, buzzes her hair. She also considers herself (again, her words) “gender-bent,” which for her means that she would be equally happy as a man or as a woman. It’s a bit more complicated than that, but that’s the closest I can come without using a lot of terms that might not be well-understood. Anyway, she says she’s known since she was 9 or 10–so very similar to the way many of us have heard other (usually exclusively) gay people talk. I learned she was gay when I was 11, several years before I was a conservative Christian. When I became a Christian, I learned at church (well, shouted from the pulpit) that it was sick and wrong. I believed that for about ten years.
As a kid, I found the idea of being gay kind of confusing. I was not then, nor have I ever been, attracted to women. My cousin told me when I was almost 14 and he was almost 16 that he was bi. I had absolutely no idea what the heck he was talking about. I sort of got the whole gay thing, but I’m pretty sure I’d never heard the word bisexual before that. No one talked to me about these things at all, except for my sister and my cousin.
By the time I worked my way out of conservative Christianity, I had very different views. I had already been a horrible friend to at least 3 people in college who tried to come out to me–but I made it impossible. So when I tossed the “gay is bad” theology, I decided I needed to learn as much as possible. What’s been said here is a pretty good summary, though I would add a few things.
First, there could be many reasons why someone would not enter into a same-sex relationship until later in life. That person may not have realized he or she was interested in people of the same sex, or might have known but was married to someone of the opposite sex, or might have known and suppressed it because of religious beliefs, or any number of other possibilities. As others have said, bisexuality does not equal infidelity. I know it may look to us on the outside like that person is denying/has denied a vital part of him/herself–after all, we’re used to the church saying “gay is bad” and our gay friends/family denying themselves relationships. We see how hard that is. But bisexuality is not the same, and people don’t need to feel unfulfilled. Look at it this way: I’m married to my husband. But there are plenty of men out there who are lovely to look at. Does that mean I want them all? No! In the same way, a happily partnered bisexual person can appreciate being turned on by someone the opposite sex of their partner without needing to be with that person.
Second, we need to be extra careful not to conflate sexuality and gender identity. I know the “T” gets lumped in there with LGB, but it probably shouldn’t. If a person is really, truly a T ally, then that person needs to understand the full measure of what that means. Get to know some people who are trans* (the correct way to write that word, because it has a number of suffixes: -sexual, -gender, etc., and they mean different things). I’m not trying to say anyone here is not being a good trans* ally, just that “LGBT” and “LGBTQI” have been used, even though this conversation isn’t specifically about trans* issues.
I think that’s about it for now. I write a lot about this, and I’ve been among LGBTQI (yes, all of those this time) for many years. So while I can’t speak in the place of my LGBTQI friends (nor would I want to), I can speak as an ally and hopefully do the topic justice.
AnonymousSo much Irony …
as soon as I stopped doing it the “church’s way”, I found health and happiness.
When I started to question church, I slid down that slippery slope they all warn you about – but I am so glad to be down here (which I believe is actually up, not down).
I am so much happier, getting a handle on my depression, and being at peace with who I am and taking control of my choices. I am beginning to really love who I am … finally at 41.My family has no clue who I am anymore. I don’t share it with them. I don’t want to “prove them right”. Maybe someday I will peek out of the closet at them, but for now, I am staying hidden and showing them what they want to see. The good part is I live 2 states away from all of them but my sister, so it’s easy to have a distant relationship where no one talks about what’s important.
i know i linked you @amy and i’m glad you commented. good words!
Thank you all for the comments. I’m flat out like a rat up a rope at the moment, but will try to give a considered post tonight.
What an amazing conversation. Thank you all for sharing thoughts and experiences.
I have read this comment thread with much interest though have stayed on the sideline simply taking it all in. So many amazing stories and so many great perspectives to learn from. Not much to add but I can share some of what we (the four of us) have learned.
Some of you know my wife and I and another couple practice poly-fidelity. In other words we have blended our two marriages in an exclusive and incredibly satisfying poly-amorous 4 person marriage. Though we live in 2 separate households we spend as much time as possible together. Our families have come to see us as extensions of each other. A few know or suspect…the rest just think we have an incredible friendship. My wife and I celebrate 30 years of marriage this year and have always been happy…even more so now. Our loved ones married for 20 years and also deeply in love. Our poly marriage (we consider ourselves committed as such though the state of course does not) is now going on 7 years together. We were terrific friends first and never considered such a thing and never could have imagined it as we all accepted the typical church view regarding marriage and sexuality. Then we all gradually simply fell in love and grew together.
Some things we have learned along the way. You do not have to divide your love in order to love more than one person. This logic of this false premise, which I believe is only promoted to control people’s behavior, falls apart to anyone who has more than one child. You do not have to take love away from your first child to fully love your second. The same CAN be (though admittedly not always is) true with with romantic love as well. When mutual trust and a desire for your partner to experience great joy and fulfillment is present it can be absolutely incredible.
Another thing we have learned is that even in a relationship like ours…we are not all in the same place on the sexuality spectrum. Each of us consider that we have two spouses and a best friend that knows us like none other. But the four of us are unique in our orientation. Both of us men are straight as an arrow heterosexuals. But our wives are more on the bi-curious side. Not to be too graphic, but they have experimented with us men present (one or both of us) but still prefer men. They have no desire to develop their own intimate relationship however and as such they clearly identify as hetero. But they are open to the occasional experimentation whereas we men are totally repulsed by the thought of any male to male sexual contact. What we have learned is that each of us is unique and independent of the others in our orientation. Still our primary relationship has always been as couples, either with our primary or secondary spouses.
We know our relationship is rare. It must be unlikely for four people to fall in love equally the way we have. And we never could have imagined such a blessing as our lives have become. But we have learned and firmly believe that our marriages and the covenant we have is ours to define. And we long ago put to bed the feelings of guilt or shame. Scripture is full of non-standard marriages and relationships that God has blessed. The law of love calls for trust, caring, honesty and faithfulness. Not some church contrived set of rules. The joy of falling in love all over again is a gift that I have chosen to give my wife and have had the joy of experiencing this with her. Each of us has shared in this rare gift to our spouses and we are stronger and deeper in love through it all.
I know this has gone a bit off stream with the focus of the comments but I thought the background may help some to better understand me. Plus…this community provides a safe place to really share such personal details that would be so risky to entrust to most in person. Sad that it takes a relatively anonymous forum to be able to be totally honest…but I am very glad we have such a place.
Anonymous@Gary Thank you so much for sharing your story. That takes guts!
AnonymousAmy, I know what the letters LGBT stand for, but can you please tell me what the QI letters stand for since I haven’t a clue? I don’t need a big long explanation.
AnonymousGary – thanks for being so honest and transparent! I think the love you two couples share for each other is beautiful. And if it works for the 4 of you that’s all that matters.
I don’t know if anyone here ever watches the TV show Sister Wives (about a healthy – not abusive – Mormon polygamous family.) I am addicted to watching that show. I’m not sure why I find it so compelling – probably because it never ceases to amaze me just how well it seems to work for that particular family. There is one very loving, caring husband and 4 or 5 equally loving, caring wives. While ach wife has her own private sexual relationship with the husband, all the wives are great friends and are emotionally close to each other. All the kids seem loved and well adjusted too. While I doubt polygamy would work that well for very many other families (course I could be wrong about that!), just like Gary’s story, to see how well it works for this family is a beautiful thing to see.
Are there any other “Sister Wives” fans out there????
Jo – We did watch Sister Wives for a while but have kind of lost interest. The irony of the uproar from the right wing evangelicals over it has always struck me as kind of funny considering the majority of the great men of faith in the bible were polygamists…lol. But I guess we never quite saw the logic of the 1 to 5 or 6 ratio. We see polyamory as the same freedom to love without the patriarchal construct. The risk of jealousy is certainly greater in their situation than in ours since our relationship never requires someone to sleep/be alone. But still I certainly support their freedom to choose what is best for them.
Of course I could talk about the dynamics of poly relationships all day long, but I really spoke up to contribute a different perspective on the discussion of sexual orientation. Everyone is unique in this regard and the old polar extremes of straight or gay simply are not accurate.
AnonymousGary,
I have to say I am fascinated with your marriage arrangement and am always curious when you speak of it. Thank you for sharing your lives with this community and even anonymously being yourself here. It helps us all to relax and just be who we are. Also, thanks for explaining more about the dynamics of your relationships. It helps to kind of visualize how it works for you folks. I am eager to say God bless you and your spouses and best friend…
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