[RenParticipant]

I’ve had things like that too, but I convinced myself that I was making up all the answers because someone who was talking to me wouldn’t say they didn’t exist, would they? @_@  Totally messed with my head…

[RenParticipant]

I know for me, pleasing people was something I was taught to do.. it had no rewards in my personal life but that’s why it was so messed up.

When I was a child, I wanted to do things that were pleasing out of wanting to show love… those things were never good enough. I was always being reprimanded  but never shown what to do. Be punished but never really corrected. I spent a lot o time very confused and hurt, but my desire for approval was still that of a child… pleasing my family only met with more disapproval… so I would turn that toward others, trying to find anyway I could to be pleasing to gain that approval I couldn’t find. In the end I was hurt for that, too..

I know that this is my own anger about my life situation talking, but I feel that pushing people of any age into that cycle is a form of emotional abuse. If someone is genuinely trying to show care for you, and you push them away, yet encourage them to keep trying (knowing you will never accept them) that’s just torture.

[RenParticipant]

Well, I’m not just talking about churches, Amy, but also just people in general…

In church and in life, we teach our kids all about why being good IS good… how nice it is… how it makes people happy to do good… and how doing good things can make you happy, too (basically that being happy you helped someone is a natural thing. Children are general pretty happy when they know they helped out.)

For public school, for instance:

Saving the ozone layer and planting trees
apologizing
raising your hand
cooperating and following rules
playing group games
not fighting

For church it could be things like:

food drives
visiting the sick
saying please and thank you
turning the other cheek
learning about love (patient, kind, etc, etc…)
telling the truth

In scouts it could be even MORE things, like

Helping old people across the street
picking up your trash
being kind to animals
being responsible for your campsite

and on TV with kid shows, it could be more stuff like:

try to make friends instead of enemies
be friendly
accept the kids around you because they’re all unique
Having fun with others is good

etc, etc.

 

Well, for some reason, they start getting another message. We teach the other messages to them, too. Who not to like, how bad you are, how bad THEY are… etc, etc.

 

By the time everyone grows up, whether you’re in a church or completely non spiritual, the way people prefer to handle things is by coercion and force. No more”good”… no more getting along. It shows up in our politics, on our jobs, in our families… And when people get angry at you for stopping to give that homeless person money or a sandwich… or even suggesting that God loves gay people, too… it’s like that they’re really saying is (and sometimes say out loud, both in church and on the street:)

“All of that “goodness and kindness stuff” is BS and not realistic. You need to be “tough” on people to get anything done”

And going back to church specifically, to me, this is totally anti christian. Jesus taught about turning the other cheek; giving your coat, too when told to hand over your shirt, etc… the fruits of the spirit are not anywhere in a church I’ve visited in my lifetime. I’m just  upset. And I’m also discouraged that churches do not see this nor encourage a return to simple kindness. Church isn’t about getting things done! It’s about loving.

People both in church and outside of it see kindness as weakness. They even argue that God isn’t “kind”. He is “just”. Meaning, that he punishes and has the right to.

Well, then I guess God has nothing to do with the fruits of the spirit then *snark*

 

As far as why I think people choose not to be “good”… I think they don’t like the idea of being used or hurt. They want to be top dog for something, even if it’s a simple interaction. But the fact of the matter is that to be kind, you have to give up on that desire… and I think that many churches, and many people in general would prefer to be dominant than kind. And that’s a shame, because Christ called his followers to be servants. You’d think Christians would be the first  to understand this…

But they don’t even though it’s right in front of their faces every week.

Part of me wants to just say, “Give up on world peace. Give up on equality. Give up on all of it. If you wanted it bad enough, we’d have been there by now. You want all of these things that require kindness and empathy… but you aren’t willing to give it. And we will continue on just like this until you are.”

 

[RenParticipant]

I have experienced it…

Growing up in the denomination I did, we never paid much attention to the calendar unless it was Christmas or Easter, and even then we made a point not to make a big fuss.

But they still run around saying “Keep Christ in Christmas” and getting upset if enough people don’t’ put out mangers…

In any case, I’ve been avoiding Christian holidays and even symbols and buildings… I don’t understand the point of having a big cross out anywhere… I sort of wonder why all of the trappings are necessary.

[RenParticipant]

i’m happy that it did ^_^

The painting in the article wasn’t the painting I sold, unfortunately. I have that painting still and I also sell prints of it ! ^_^

 

I love Louisiana’s swamps, too. In fact I’m sort of attached to water. I could never live very far from it.

[RenParticipant]

Well, of course, he thinks I should leave, and doesn’t think I can begin healing until that happens. He also suggest I live by myself for a few different reasons… but I’ve been scouring for a way to do that for years.

As it stands, it’s impossible as I can’t make enough money on my own due to a disability I havet hat limits my ability to do anything physical for very long. My long distance girlfriend in California has offered me a place to live with her, but we have decided due to a number of things to wait until about July of next year. So I’m just here, still…

It’s hard and anything could happen between now and then, but I’m hoping that this time I will have a chance to actually seek health.

You wouldn’t believe how many months I’ve poured and almost literally salivated over information about tiny houses on wheels, just DREAMING of having my own little space…. I’ve been tempted to see if I can somehow gather volunteers willing to help me build one nd perhaps pay them in art, or something, but I have no way to house them

I just don’t’ have the means.. >.<

 

 

[RenParticipant]

I’m struggling with the idea of family and choosing love of self over acceptance by others, even if that acceptance is marginal at best.

There are many situations in my life where I should have chosen myself.. but didn’t know how to.. even thought it was selfish and evil.

And I have been made to pay for it by people who didn’t give a damn about me in the first place.

These people include my family and people who should have been my friends, but … I don’t know what happened.

I’ve learned that being the “nice”  person makes you a target. Why? I have no idea. I was always taught to consider others ahead of myself. Now I just wonder if it was another emotional trap and not actually sound advice.

There are winding roads and pits that are associated with my racial/cultural background, so I’ve essentially had to rethink myself from the ground up. Nothing -including my heritage– can be made intrinsically relevant in a world where everything about you is seen as a fatal flaw by the people you live with every day.

I have to free myself from all of the “mothers and fathers and family” I have ever known, whether physical, spiritual, social, or ancestral. I guess I’ll find my way back to them eventually. But to stat with, I must no longer consider them until I can acknowledge them without them being used as successful weapons against me.

[RenParticipant]

It certainly does. However, my family is very traditional… all of them.

I told my mom I was bi when I was 21… well.. she didn’t react very well (6 hours of screaming) , so I never told my dad.

Sexuality is always a touchy topic(heck sex in general is!)  But gender…

I have found that discussing gender identity with people confuses them, makes them angry… etc.. on very personal levels. Not so much to do with religion, but the essence of being who one is.

So, if sexuality is gonna upset someone, then gender is guaranteed.

What’s more, I’ve been in a situation for a long time now where it would be better to be out of the house at last, but I can never manage it. Emotionally, they are very dangerous for me, and that is something even my psyc has said. However, we do have our good times, but they are few.

Eventually, I will have to make a decision about surgery and my name. I don’t want to make my entire family leave me out any more than they already do. They already think the worst of me. I have no idea why.

I’m not sure i could handle it if I tried one more time to be honest about who I am and my feelings about things and be rejected for the last and biggest time ever.  I have no place to go and even though I have survived a lot, I’ve discovered in December that I have no more emotional reserves with them. I’m liable to break down crying  in front of them before I can keep my cool,  any longer.

It’s not set in stone. I just have no idea what to do.

[RenParticipant]

 However then I think, ‘but if that person is my partner then I want the stability of relating to them without seeing their constant change on the spectrum?’

Yes, and that is why people tend not to like bis/pans… However, they fail to realize that, if the person you’re talking about it monogamous anyway, then it won’t much matter. If they are with you, then they are with you. (If they are not monogamous  then you just ran into a minority of any group of people.. I know very very very few polyamourous people because it’s a dificult thing to juggle. Cheaters, on the other hand are everywhere.)

If they ever leave you, then the next person they are with could be anyone, but it shouldn’t make you or anyone else feel bad if they chose someone of another gender… falling in love isn’t quite that reactionary… lol

Likewise the person they were with before you shouldn’t and doesn’t dictate the reasons why they are with you.

[RenParticipant]

Sounds promising!

[RenParticipant]

I think that people who use this idea think of God as something/someone hie is not.

1.God will not make everything perfect for you. You will be wrong. you will fail in things big and small.

2.I think people use this idea to make everyone”get in line” because it’s impossible to NOT FAIL. Therefore, everyone who reads it, even if they feel self righteous, will still work even harder to “get right with God”, which means of course, doing what the leadership at your church says.

It’s a trick statement.

And those who think they are “in the right” are lying to themselves about something. Or they simply haven’t failed, yet.

They might as well have just said, “GET YOUR ASS IN CHURCH AND OBEY, NOW!”  But that doesn’t sound nearly as spiritual.

[RenParticipant]

I’m still not sure if I’m making sense, but I’m not sure how I relate to someone who is not all straight, or not all gay.

Well, an example of someone who is not all straight or not all gay would be someone who identifies as bisexual or some other variant (like pansexual). People who are bi often end up appearing to “switch teams” later in life if they never acknowledged it in themselves earlier. They were always  bi, but only expressing one side of it. You can be bi and completely blend in with straight or gay communities, depending on your personal romantic patterns (the spectrum, which is different for everyone). And this is frustrating to both the gay and straight communities. Bisexuals are often ignored or demonized.

What’s more, often people don’t know what “bisexuality” even IS, so they label themselves gay or straight, depending on who they’re with or how they feel about sex with people of certain genders at that point in their lives. It leads to a kind of invisibility of bi people.

I identify as bi, and for me, it’s not about sex so much as it is about interest in a person. If the person is someone I find attractive intellectually, then (for me personally) physical attraction follows right after.  Of course, there are lots of 100% straight and gay people who have the same way of operating, but I think that the emphasis on “attraction to person” over “attraction to gender” is the most important part of conversations I’ve had with people who were bi, or pan.

Just as an explanation, Bisexual was considered  by some to not be inclusive enough, because it implied attraction to “either/or men or women” without including people who didn’t fall neatly into those two groups for whatever reason. (sometimes social, sometimes physical, etc..)

As a result, the term pansexual was born, which covers “many”  (pan) instead of “two” (bi).

So in my case, I guess technically, I’m pan, but to make things easier and non-confusing, I still just stick to bi.  

[RenParticipant]

>///> Thank you… seriously, I’m terrible at making things sound more …erm… *tries to think of a word*   … vanilla?  XD

It’s partly why I don’t work retail or customer service anymore .. *laughs*

[RenParticipant]

Just running through the forums answering things even though it’s been a while ! XD

I grew up with a lot of anxiety, physical pain, and I hardly sleep, so my practice–even when I was still very into the church- always centers around sleep because of its restfulness and the physical comfort of my bed.

For me, I try to lay down (I can’t sit up for very long) and isolate myself under my blanket in bed (this is how I  normally sleep… bed, for me is the ultimate safe place, and sleep is the ultimate healer) close my eyes, and put myself on the edge of sleep… again, I love seep for many reasons… maybe it’s just because I turned to it a lot in my childhood.

I will just lay there and drift on that edge and think, or pray, or intentionally do nothing…  and if I actually drop off, then I just let myself.

latly, I made myself a set of prayer beads based off of the design of a mala. My bead count is 49, though… significantly less than an actual mala.

I say a very simple children’s mantra because it’s easy to remember: “I am happy. I am good”

I will eventually use other mantras.

when I get to the end, I say another prayer.. usually I drift in and out of sleep while I do this. By the time I get up again, I feel centered.

 

Recently I have added another part of  practice based around writing. (writing is another thing I was hell bent on for most of my life…) I only do this if I’m worried or angry: I will write what I need o on some paper and burn it.  I have a special pot that I do this in. occasionally, I will add certain herbs or inscence to the paper.

I also burn candles and keep them burning for as long as something is worrying me, day or night. The flame is like a companion or a beacon when I feel  lost or afraid. It is a kind of spiritual “night light”.

All of these things bring me comfort, though I can’t say why.

[RenParticipant]

THAT is the core of some serious things I am wrestling with because…..
I have never been able to say that.

McBeth, I am often told that I say things that others find it difficult to say, so your comment stuck with me, as well..
Right now, I am hoping that other things I find the courage to say will continue to help out. My rants are often all I have, so I’m happy they are doing good instead of simply being negative-sounding… *HUGS* I was afraid it would sound alienating… but it’s true.. we must trust ourselves, and that is something that we must hold on to, no matter who says we should not.
Thank you also!

[Author]

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